Acer tataricum ssp. ginnala

Discussion in 'Maple Photo Gallery' started by Andre, Jun 16, 2005.

  1. Andre

    Andre Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    There was no thread on Acer ginnala on this forum so I open it with the only one I have which is a very little seedling. Seeds sown in spring 2005.

    The second picture shows the seedling on July, 13. It's about 1 foot high.

    If you have nices pics of mature ginnala, you're welcome !
     

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    Last edited: Jul 13, 2005
  2. Elmore

    Elmore Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: Acer ginnala

    Here is a mature Acer ginnala 'Flame' located in the Tennessee Valley.
     

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  3. JScidmore

    JScidmore Member

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    Amur Maples--need general care info & ? pruning

    I have 3 amur maples which I planted from seed. They are about 4 ft tall and bushy. Are they supposed to be bushy? Or should I be pruning them? As you can see, I do not know what shape they are to be. Any other suggestions for care would be greatly appreciated as I just moved them with me from the midwest to the south and am about to transplant them. Thanx JScidmore
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2005
  4. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Re: Amur Maples--need general care info & ? pruning

    Yes, they are usually bushy, that's normal. No need to prune.
     
  5. Andre

    Andre Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Acer ginnala

    I have 8 seedlings of Acer ginnala sown last spring.

    My tallest seedling is now 4 feets tall !!!
    An other is 3 feets and the rest is about 2 feets.

    Is this species known for being a fast growing one ?
     
  6. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Re: Acer ginnala

    Here's some foliage on a plant in my local park.
    It is fairly fast-growing when young, but soon slows down. By the time it is 10 years old it will only grow 20-30cm/year
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2005
  7. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: Acer ginnala

    Considered a subspecies of Acer tataricum.
     
  8. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Re: Acer ginnala

    By some botanists; far from all!
     
  9. Andre

    Andre Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Acer ginnala

    The GRIN considers ginnala as a ssp of tataricum.
     
  10. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Re: Acer ginnala

    Depends on which book you read! A quick look through a few gives a roughly equal split in opinion or a slight majority for treatment as a species.

    They're clearly closely related, but as far as I can tell from the published range descriptions their ranges are well-separated with the full width of the Gobi Desert between them, so there's no intergradation. They are also quite distinct in leaf shape. While not hard-and-fast criteria, the two in combination would tend to favour acceptance as distinct species.

    If it comes to lumping species, I suspect some of the numerous species of snake-bark maples would be less justifiable.
     
  11. Andre

    Andre Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Acer ginnala

    Yes, tataricum (on the left) is unlobed as ginnala is.
     

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  12. Andre

    Andre Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Amur Maples--need general care info & ? pruning

    Here is a link where you can see the evolution of an Acer ginnala in bonsaï through 7 years.

    http://www.rgbonsai.com/amurearly.htm

    It shows that Acer ginnala can also be a nice broom.
     
  13. Re: Amur Maples--need general care info & ? pruning

    Thanx to all replies re: amur maples--I appreciate it! JScidmore
     
  14. Laurie

    Laurie Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Acer tataricum ssp. ginnala - private collection.

    The leaves are 3-lobed, with some being unlobed, and there are almost always some white and pinkish variegated leaves. The autumn color can be very brilliant, depending on the selection. The leaves drop soon after coloring. This subspecies can only be confused with subspecies tataricum, its nearest relative, which bears unlobed or remotely lobed leaves and never has the peculiar variegation.​

    Van Gelderen, et al., Maples of the World (Timber Press 1994).
     

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    Last edited: Oct 28, 2005
  15. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    I assume you are saying this particular specimen is partly variegated, and not all of them. I haven't seen this behavior on other examples.
     
  16. Laurie

    Laurie Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Acer tataricum ssp. ginnala - Accession 1993; UWBG Washington Park Arboretum, Seattle. There are some leaves on this specimen that show some variegation, although not as many as in the specimen above.
     

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    Last edited: May 27, 2006
  17. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I also have a small specimen that, to my surprise, shows significant variegation

    Gomero
     

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  18. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Tatarian maple can have 3-lobed leaves as well. Jacobson, NORTH AMERICAN LANDSCAPE TREES (Ten Speed 1996) says Amur and Tatarian maples cross, also notes under Amur maple (which he lists as A. tataricum ssp. Ginnala) that "Variegated seedlings are comparatively common."
     
  19. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    So does he also have Acer rubrum subsp. saccharinum, A. platanoides subsp. truncatum, etc, etc, etc?? ;-)
     
  20. Laurie

    Laurie Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    A. tataricum (4 ssp.) is the only species in section Ginnala.
    A. rubrum and A. saccharinum are two of three species in section Rubra.
    A. platanoides and A. truncatum are two of thirteen species in section Platanoidea.

    De Jong, Piet C., Worldwide Maple Diversity, Proceedings of the International Maple Symposium 2002: 2-11.

    According to van Gelderen, “Acer tataricum ssp. ginnala was described (as A. ginnala) and introduced by Maximowicz in 1857 to St. Petersburg, Russia. ‘Ginnala’ is the common name for this maple in Manchuria and northern China[.]” It is native to Northeastern and northern China, Manchuria, and North Korea; Japan on the islands of Honshu, Shikoku, and Kyushu. Many species within a section or series are known to hybridize freely, particularly those in section Macrantha, under which, at last count, there are now 21 species.

    This thread was opened as Acer ginnala, but last year I opened one entitled Acer tataricum ssp. ginnala. To keep a quality Maple Photo Gallery up to date, we need to follow some guidelines. The best authority on the subject at this time is, in my opinion, the Proceedings of the International Maple Symposium 2002. Prof. de Jong was a coauthor on Maples of the World. I am not a botanist, but I actually asked Andre, our moderator, to fuse the two threads under the currently accepted species name. There may be disagreements regarding this particular species, but if so, they have not yet been settled.

    According to van Gelderen, Acer tataricum ssp. tataricum is native to Austria, Hungary, Serbia, Romania, the Caucasus, Ukraine, and Turkey. Are there no other examples of subspecies separated so by their native habitats?
     
  21. richardbeasley@comcast.net

    richardbeasley@comcast.net Active Member Maple Society

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    Re: Acer ginnala

    Someone should move that ugly building and give that tree a nice back drop.
     
  22. alex66

    alex66 Rising Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    TNT is solution ....
     
  23. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Note that 'Flame' is a seed strain dating from the 1970s, which has demonstrated variable growth and fall color - some seedlings sold under this name may not even "flame" in the autumn.
     
  24. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    To return to an earlier query (5 May 2006):
    None that I can think of with not only such a large separation (over 3,000km gap), but also so readily distinguishable from each other. Having Acer tataricum subsp. ginnala is roughly equivalent to having Pinus strobus subsp. wallichiana (P. strobus and P. wallichiana also hybridise freely when planted together) or Quercus robur subsp. alba (ditto, Q. robur and Q. alba). It really is nonsensical; I suggest this page title be restored to the traditional nomenclature as Acer ginnala.
     
  25. norma

    norma Member

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    What about windy sites and sun, is it better to plant a mountain ash or acer ginnala?
    What about service berry?
     

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