Acer sieboldianum Miquel (1865)

Discussion in 'Maple Photo Gallery' started by kbguess, Apr 29, 2021.

  1. kbguess

    kbguess Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    About 10 years old with first flowers

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  2. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    As each day passes I'm getting more interested in species maples and your photo Keith has made the day I purchase more of these a step closer. Great photo.
     
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  3. rezi206

    rezi206 Member

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    5 or 6 year old tree
     

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    Last edited: May 24, 2021
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  4. kbguess

    kbguess Rising Contributor 10 Years

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  5. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    I had taken some pictures of this, thanks for reminding me to post.

    The title of the thread should probably be changed to Acer sieboldianum Miquel (1865), TIA if any moderators are paying attention.

    It is quite difficult to differentiate this species from pseudosieboldianum, and the two are often confused, as it can be quite polymorphic (as the whole Section.) IIRC the number of bud scale scars below new growth is determinant.

    On this windy day it was very difficult to get focus, so I didn't try (much) to show bud scales scarring or hairy petioles, just some leaves, flowers and a few different views, the first from inside. It is a magnificent tree all year, with great autumn colors and fine winter form, but like many it suffered very much over the last couple of years. Reputedly it's a very tough maple, I certainly hope so.

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  6. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Paid attention and changed E.
     
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  7. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    I was at my brother's house earlier and looking at the oddball matsumurae that I gifted him last year, after nearly 20 years of growing it from a baby seedling. Looking at it with fresh eyes I realised it is not in the palmatum/amoenum/matsumurae group at all, and looks just like a sieboldianum. Can't remember if the leaves look fuzzy in the spring, will need to key it out next time I visit, and if good will post pics.

    In the meantime a couple of questions:
    Is the bark on older wood smooth grey with some faint striping?
    Do the samaras have red wings and yellow/green nutlets? Sometimes horseshoe shaped with curved wings? (first time it has seeded)
     
  8. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hi maf, the samaras def sound wrong, but I wouldn't draw many conclusions from the first year it fruits.

    The bark is grey, but still mottled with green patches except at the base of the tree. There is "striping", but rather than being a color feature, it's where the bark is cracking as it expands with growth.

    The samaras are small (~1.5cm) and virtually horizontal. They are light green but the wings start to go brown quite early. I haven't looked in the literature to see if my plant is typical, because of course, soil and exposition will play a role in things like samara and nutlet color.

    This is a zoomed in pic, but will give you an idea.

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  9. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hmm, I just trawled through the back issues of the MS newsletter and had to go all the way back to 2004 to find Peter Gregory's description of Acer sieboldianum. Most of what he wrote was similar to how this tree looks but he also mentioned the flat angle of the wings on the samaras. However, on cross referencing Yano's Book for Maples, on page 50 is a photograph of curved horseshoe shaped samaras, the same shape and similar colour as the ones I saw yesterday. Very puzzling!?

    Next time I visit brother will take a 10X hand lens and an Acer key for sure! And take some photographs...
     
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  10. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Yes, that's very odd in Yano. I looked just now, those don't look at all like sieboldianum to me. Hardy has a picture, they are exactly as shown above.

    I don't remember the 2004 article very well, but I edited (and expanded some pictures, added a map) the sieboldianum profile for the OSI, now sadly dead. The article is on the web site though, and I've attached it here.

    The picture of the samaras (Hugh Angus, and vetted by Dan Crowley, who oversaw a couple of updates to the article) looks the same as on our plant, except they're rather redder than we see.

    Pirc mentions an "obtuse angle" which doesn't say much but disagrees with Yano, and MOW says nothing. I can't seem to lay hands on Harris but pretty sure he doesn't have anything about the fruit.
     

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