acer shirasawanum 'ruby red'

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Dan, Mar 12, 2010.

  1. Dan

    Dan Member

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    Hello,

    Some days ago I found this information and picture

    http://summershollow.blogspot.com/2009/10/strange-fall-colors.html

    about acer shirasawanum ‘ruby red’. It seems to be a new and widely unknown shirasawanum cultivar. The few information sounds very interesting because it seem to be a red acer shirasawanum which seem to me very unusual!

    I only found few more information by greergardens, but all in all very little.

    Is there anybody who have experience with this plant and who can tell something more about it?

    @Kaitain4 Thank you for your explanation for winter grafting, I red the Thread yesterday, it is the most interesting thread at this time in the forum and with very precious information for acer-enthusiasts. Thanks for sharing us.
     
  2. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Dan,

    Thank you very much.

    I have A.s. 'Ruby Red', and it does come out with very red leaves. I can't tell you a lot about it becase a deer ate the plant down to a couple of leaves soon after the new growth sprouted. I moved it to a protected location (in the shade), so I don't know that much about the coloration and how well the red holds up as the season progresses. The plant did recover, and I'm hoping I'll have the opportunity to observe it for a full season this time.

    There is another cultivar, Yasemin, which is a hybrid between a. palmatum and a. shirasawanum, which is very red, vigorous, and lovely all season. You may also want to give that one a try.
     
  3. Poetry to Burn

    Poetry to Burn Active Member

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    Hey Dan,

    This plant might be A. Japonicum. Here's a thread that discusses it.
     
  4. Dan

    Dan Member

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    K4 and Gil,

    thanks for the answers.


    K4,

    I have A.s. 'Ruby Red', and it does come out with very red leaves.

    That sounds pretty good.

    a deer ate the plant down to a couple of leaves soon after the new growth sprouted

    That sounds horrible!

    There is another cultivar, Yasemin

    A. Shirasawanum ‘Yasemin’ is an exceptional plant but it looks not typical for acer shirasawanum but more like a hybride between acer palmatum ‘trompenburg’ and acer japonicum ‘aconitifolium’, therefore it is obvious the same species but quite a different tree (and not my favorite, also because summer-color is in my opinion to dark).

    Gil,

    Thank you for the link, which there is a lot of information, but after I have red this, I’m now confused.

    You and Mike presume (here: http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=61027&highlight=ruby) that acer japonicum ‘ruby’ and a. shirasawanum ‘ruby red’ are two different names for the same plant. So two names but only one plant.

    K4 said that, a. shirasawanum ‘ruby red’ does come out with very red leaves.

    Kay Dye (Sommer’s Hollow) said, that the sommer colour of a. shirasawanum ‘ruby red’ is a fantastic red, also the mottled red in fall.

    Greer Gardens (http://www.greergardens.com/acers.htm ) sais, that a. shirasawanum ‘ruby red’ is the closest to red of any of the new Acer shiraswanum cultivars that are presently available. and Fall color is a fantastic blue red.

    Galt said (here: http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=61027&highlight=ruby):

    The issue here is that aka and ruby imply red and these are not red japonicums. They have exaggerated red blush or leaf color early in the season, but this is common for Japonicums. Just like with Shiraswanum, red has really not been introduced into these maples--they are still green and to get them to perform otherwise is very wishful.

    My conclusion: Your statement and Galts statement pulled together seem to be in contradiction with the statements from K4, Kay Dye and Greer.

    K4 where did you purchase your a. shirasawanum ‘ruby red’?

    Perhaps there is somebody who has Vertrees fourth Ed. and can look after in that and can tell us what the fourth Ed. says about acer shirasawanum 'ruby red' and its relation to acer japonicum 'ruby' and acer japonicum 'aka omote'.
     
  5. maf

    maf Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    Greers online catalogue lists both shirasawanum 'Ruby Red' and japonicum 'Ruby', which would indicate (or suggest) they both exist as separate cultivars. Unfortunately Vertrees/Gregory fourth edition mentions neither, so that is no help.
     
  6. sasquatch

    sasquatch Active Member

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    I purchase A. s. Ruby Red from Greer's last spring. It had a red blush to the leaves in spring, but they turned green pretty quickly. I don't recall anything spectacular about the fall colors either. I felt that the description in the catalog was not accurate, at least in my garden. Maybe it needs alot of sunlight, as mine was in a shady spot.
     
  7. kaydye

    kaydye Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    It's very strange to read a post and find your own blog in the address:) It would be great if it was a shirasawanum. The leaves remind me of one more than a japonicum, but the buds which are starting to swell, look somewhat like a japonicum. Mine was purchased late in the season (July) and the reason I was excited about it was because it was still red. I have grown Johin for a few years and it stays "bronzy" red, a lot like a palmatum. I am anxious to see the Ruby Red this year, since it is so new. Mine gets a couple hours of late morning sun.

    What I don't understand is why there is such contoversy over whether or not these are hybrids from different species. Are growers just finding seedlings and guessing that they look like a cross between a japonicum and palmatum, or palmatum and shirasawanum? Are they actually making crosses between different species and no one believes them? Like Johin always listed as xJohin, what is that all about? Do we know for sure the parentage, or is it just a guess based on observation? It sure is different from crossing other species. I did a lot of hybridization with hostas and usually could be sure of who the seed parents were. I have always wondered if/how it was possible to cross two specific japonicums, for example. The flower parts are so small and no books talk much (any?) about developing new maples from seed, except for the process of seed growing and selection of chance seedlings. I find it all curious and can't help wondering if there is a secrecy surrounding it. There certainly was in hostas, as far as what crosses were being done. Well, I'm rambling...
    If the maples live, grow, don't get eaten, no tree falls on them, etc. it's all good.
    Kay Dye
     
  8. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    You know, Kay Dye, the sex life of maples is complicated......
    ;o)))

    Gomero
     
  9. Dan

    Dan Member

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    Hello Kay Dye,

    I didn’t know that you are a member of this forum. I found your websit about google and saw your picture from a. shirasawanum ‘ruby red’ and red the text and I was interested in what maple a. shirasawanum ‘ruby red’ is. But I didn’t found some more information about this plant.

    Thus I wrote the first post above here in the forum in order to find out more about this plant. Your web-site is public, everybody can look in, hence I think it’s normal that somebody will refer to your site in order to show others something if it is of interest.

    Mine was purchased late in the season (July) and the reason I was excited about it was because it was still red.

    Thank you, that is what I’m looking for.

    A good example for a red-leaved hybride is in my eyes acer shirasawanum ‘red dawn’, the shape of the leaves are more a. palmatum as a. shirasawanum (and perhaps also the habitus).

    a. shirasawanum ‘ruby red’:

    http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56640&d=1239582479 (K4 I found the pic in the thread “maple leave out reports” 2009)

    acer shirasawanum ‘red dawn’:

    http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=57617&d=1240190631 (Pic is from the thread “acer shirasawanum ‘red dawn’ from gil)

    You can see clearly the difference in leaf-shape.

    Sasquatch thanks for sharing your watching.

    Maf, thank’s for the evidence.

    Dan
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2010
  10. sasquatch

    sasquatch Active Member

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    I looked at this yesterday and found the same thing. My Ruby Red is opening at this time, right on schedule with all my other Japonicum. It has large buds that are covered in white hairs, like many of my other Japonicum. In contrast, all my Shiraswanum plants have small reddish brown buds that are opening slower than the Japonicum. Based on early spring appearances, I'd guess it to be a Japonicum.
     
  11. Poetry to Burn

    Poetry to Burn Active Member

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    Same here with earlier opening of japonicums vs. shirasawanums. I gave away my 'Ruby Red' so not sure about its stage of development right now.

    NJACER has the 'Ruby Red' that is in the pics with 'Aka Omote' from my earlier post. Maybe Ed will say whether his plant is opening with the japonicums.

    KAY......that is my knuckle-headed comment on your blog post. I didn't catch the connection mentioned here until too late. Sorry.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2010
  12. kaydye

    kaydye Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Ha! Is it now? I have also heard from a reliable source that oaks are promiscuous. I was trying to track down some seed from oak trees that someone on this forum was looking for and asked the head of our local arboretum if they were growing any of the cultivars that I was looking for so I could gather some seed. That was his comment about seed collecting from oaks.
    Kay
     
  13. kaydye

    kaydye Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Don't get me wrong guys, I love it that someone is looking at my blog. I just never figure anyone does because there aren't many comments. Plus, I never even thought about it coming up if someone Googled the maple name. Some aspects of technology kind of escape me. I haven't looked at that one for awhile because nothing is sprouting here to take pictures of. The other blog I have is strictly maples and I am using it to put all my data of the plants I am growing in cyberspace so I can free up my computer from all the maple pictures. So I have two that I update. I love to be able to look at my plants at work, or away from home, etc., whether or not anyone else is:)

    I was glad to hear the concensus on the buds, although disappointed if it's not a shirasawanum (although I don't know why...I like them both). I am envious of those new, freshly unfolding leaves that were pictured. Great photos.

    It still brings me back, seriously Gomero, to the question of the origination of these supposed hybrids. Technology allows us to test for this now doesn't it? I mean, if you have the resources and facilities, of course.
    Kay
     
  14. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    You can certainly try hand pollination, Susan Wiegrefe has done a lot of work trying to develop improved maple hybrids and she used a protocol which includes bagging the flowers before opening and doing hand pollination.
    But you better know what you are doing since maples, as I said above, have a complicated sexual life as explained in detail in the book 'Maples of the World': there are about 11 flowering types of Acer inflorescences and you need to know which type you are dealing with and where in the consecutive phase you are in.

    Gomero
     
  15. Arktrees

    Arktrees Member

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    The key probe in identifying hybrids through lab work, is the cost involved. Someone has to pay for it, and certain conditions must be meet, plus the correct technique is not always clear.

    Arktrees
     
  16. sasquatch

    sasquatch Active Member

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    I placed this tree in a sunny spot this year, and it was much redder than before. It had rich red color throughout the growing season, without any sign of greening out!
     
  17. Poetry to Burn

    Poetry to Burn Active Member

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    Last Fall I placed 'Aka Omote' in the ground in a sunny spot. Early in the season it was a stunning beauty. Over the summer season though the sun was too much for it. My experience supports the cultural observation made back in this thread i.e. 'Ruby' is a more sun tolerant plant.

    The 'Aka Omote' that I sited in full sun does suffer leaf burn and obvious stress even with adequate moisture. This is a first full year observation.
     
  18. kaydye

    kaydye Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Mine still had the mottled red in the fall that it had on the picture on my website. The foilage, though, was green all year, not even much red in the spring. It is growing in a pretty shaded spot. It will be interesting to see what it's like in its third year.
    Kay
     
  19. amazingmaples

    amazingmaples Well-Known Member

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    does any one have a photo of the leaf of this tree?

    one of my new trees from Buchholz sounds similar, it is called Shira Red which is different than Red Dawn and Yasemin
     
  20. sasquatch

    sasquatch Active Member

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    Here's a photo of mine from when it spent the summer in deep shade. The leaves are much redder when placed in the sun.
     

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  21. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Mine is in morning sun, afternoon shade and it keeps well its color. Photos were taken today, July 31st

    Gomero
     

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  22. amazingmaples

    amazingmaples Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the photos.

    Well, from the looks Shira Red is not even close to the same tree nor any of my Red Dawn or Jasemin. from the photos it looks much more like a japonicum.
     

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