Acer saccharinum trees are supposed to be not very common in Vancouver, but there seem to be several old examples of them in the West End, unless I've got this wrong. These have the deeply lobed leaves and silvery lower surfaces. There are no samaras now in the trees or paired on the ground, but the single dried out ones on the ground are about the right relative size according to Straley's diagrams in Trees of Vancouver. These trees have nice big limbs. These trees are on Comox east of Denman. This tree is on Bidwell, north of Nelson (about two blocks from the others).
Yep, they're Silver Maples. In the UK climate, it rarely (if ever?) produces seeds, maybe it has the same difficulty seeding in the Vancouver climate?
The Bidwell tree has rather shallow lobes for a pure silver maple. Notice how it differs from the Comox close-up.
I started wondering about that too, as several of the leaves don't have that larger centre lobe, but Straley says that A. saccharum leaves have petioles generally shorter than the blades, and these petioles seem generally longer than the leaves, so I think it's not that. It doesn't look like Norway maple to me - missing the rounded crown and elongated leaf tips and same colouring on both sides of the leaves. What else is in the running?
I did find one intact samara, which to me doesn't look that much like anything Straley drew, but I don't know the minimal differences. The second photo is of the samaras under the Comox A. saccharinum that is not in question. Across the lane from my building on Bidwell, a block from these other trees, are three trees that look the same to me. The circumference of the trunk of this one is 137" (347cm). And on what would be Bidwell if it continued into the West End Community Centre are three more of these trees. In one of the photos, the leaves look like good examples of Acer saccharinum, but in the last photo from the same tree, they look more like the leaves in my photo in the first posting that Ron's questioning the id of.
There are a few keys to maples on the web. http://www.google.com/search?client...el=s&hl=en&q=key+to+maples&btnG=Google+Search
Thanks, Ron. I found this Wikipedia page, which shows at the bottom a drawing of leaves and samaras for A. saccharinum that I think does look like these.
The first pic on post #6 is a samara of a species in sect. Platanoidea; looks most like Cappadocian Maple, but could be Field Maple or (undersized aborted) Norway Maple. Second pic there does look like Silver Maple. So maybe a Freeman Maple? But has that been around for long enough as a cultivated plant in the PNW to reach the size and age of the tree shown? Also the crown shape is typical of pure Silver. I'd put it down to natural variation in the shape of the leaves, rather than a hybrid.
In Seattle there's at least one Freeman maple outside of the Arboretum over 70' tall. (Inside the Arboretum are two over 80' tall). Only clones are sold these days, but older plantings of seedling Red maples have a few chance hybrids --A.L. Jacobson, Trees of Seattle - Second Edition (2006)
There's so much variation in these leaves. I agree that a larger percentage of the leaves look more indented on the Comox St trees, but here are some more photos - this time making sure to get the right leaves with the right tree, as there are two of these trees on that half block of Bidwell. In both cases, following the tree is a photo of the leaves high up on the crown and a photo of the sucker growth. Tree near the corner Tree nearer the lane From what I've read, the Freeman maple should have red autumn leaves, while the Silver maple has yellow leaves. I seem to remember a lot of yellow in my neighbourhood, but I'll check in the fall.
I don't remember if this community centre silver maple had its "poodle cut" trunk when I saw it the other day, or it's just that it particularly caught my attention after the difficulty of trying to measure one of the street trees whose trunks are totally surrounded by suckers.
Silver maples are EVERYWHERE in the midwest. They produce seeds by the millions, and are quite the nuisance to clean up after - especially the many that make it into gutters or the babies that sprout up in your beds. I've got an old tree in my front yard, and those "helicopters" (as we called them as children) are such a mess. I've seen 5-8 feet tall trees for sale at the local stores, and it always amazes me that they are offered... all you'd have to do is plant a seed and you'd have a 5-8 foot tree in a year or two! But the leaves are quite pretty when blowing in the wind. :-)
Some Silver Maple here produce multicolored fall foliage displays that are quite nice. Theoretically, Freeman Maple can have any combination of characters between the two parent species - not all clonal selections produce predominantly red fall color. And not all specimens present are clonal selections - particularly larger, older ones. http://www.chicagolandgrows.org/downloads/marmofreeman.pdf
Ron, thanks for the link to the photos and description of Marmo Freeman Maples. It says they produce no fruit, whereas Silver Maple seeds mature in early summer. So far, nothing is ruling out Freeman Maple for the Bidwell trees.
I posted this photo ages in another thread in which I'm (still) trying to ID my local maples, but it works as a follow-up here. When the Marmo Freeman Maples page says it produces no seed, does that mean no samaras? Or are there such things as infertile samaras? If the former, then this would not be that clone. One thing ruled out. It still could be a naturally occurring hybrid. I've never noticed samaras on this tree except in this one instance when I caught the developing ones in the spring.
Hi Wendy, I believe Freeman Maples can produce samaras, sometimes sparse. I don't know for the Marmo cultivar particularly. Many maples including Silver maples produce parthenocarpic samaras, that is without a seed in the samara. Parthenocarpy means development of fruit without fertilization, so such fruit has no seed. cheers, -E
Thanks, Emery. I previously misquoted the Marmo Freeman website as saying it produced no fruit; it says "no seed", as I stated in yesterday's posting. So nothing is ruled out.
The tree with which I started this thread, at the lane behind my building, has been deemed an Acer x freemanii. Here are some recent photos (also posted in another thread). So for a comparison, I am posting some photos from a street on the east side of Vancouver with several big old Acer saccharinum. The samaras look the same to me - I don't think they can be an identifying feature, except that the uneven samaras are characteristic of both these trees, or is the skinniness of the samara here characteristic? First five photos are from one tree, next three from one different tree.
@wcutler, Hi Wendy, re second from last photo, I think that's the most amazing trunk I've ever seen. Wow !!!
The real reason for this post is the amazing-to-me root growth on a tree that has been cut down on Bidwell Street, from which I have posted other trees above. I think the consensus is that these are Acer freemanii, not A. saccharinum as I originally thought. If someone will confirm that, I will change the thread title. If I remember correctly, this stump is not very high, maybe 15 cm. I couldn't actually see it, so maybe it's more flush to the ground. Here are photos of three trees that were probably planted at the same time on this street. This one is a half-block away from the one above. This one is in posting #6 above. This tree is two blocks away on the same street. Based on the fungi, I suspect it will be removed fairly soon. The Parks Board regularly removes the suckers from these trees, or used to do that; I wonder if they did this one in particular so they could keep an eye on the fungi.
