Acer rubrum 'October Glory'

Discussion in 'Maple Photo Gallery' started by Laurie, Oct 30, 2005.

  1. Laurie

    Laurie Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Acer rubrum 'October Glory' - Washington Park Arboretum, Seattle, accession 1969.
     

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  2. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Note: October Glory is a registered trademark used to sell this tree. Its cultivar name is 'PNI 0268'.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2005
  3. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Oof. Well, I don't think that cultivar name will stand the test of time - is it so hard to follow the nomenclatural code for cultivated plants (re: 'PNI 0268')?
     
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  4. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    The thing is

    "A trademark name cannot be used in the Code of Nomenclature. Thus, a unique or novel name must be created in addition to the cultivar name to establish a trademark. Trademark names are considered "brand names", similar to Air Jordan being a brand of athletic shoes, and have no taxonomic validity. Furthermore, if a trademark name is used in international registers or printed matter as a cultivar name, the name becomes generic and losses the protection status for the inventor (breeder).
    Thus, a trademarked plant often may have a trademark name and a cultivar name. In this case, the cultivar name is sometimes considered a "nonsense" name in that it is rarely used in commerce. The trademark name is the name promoted commercially. However, the so-called nonsense cultivar name is the name used in the Code of Nomenclature."

    http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ldplants/sci-names.htm
     
  5. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    The part that I was recalling from the code was that cryptic numbers and such couldn't be used in cultivar names - but I don't have the book with me to double-check. I had known about the "two names" requirement (and isn't that a recipe for yet more confusion). Layer on top of that trademarks might be different in different countries, and so yet more names might be assigned...
     
  6. Laurie

    Laurie Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Firstly, the cited source for the above information on trademarks is a link to Oregon State University's website, which, incidentally, uses 'October Glory' in Landscape Plants under Acer rubrum at http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ldplants/acru.htm. (Please note that trademarks are only good for 20 years from the date of the registration.)

    Secondly, I found the following excerpt from a paper entitled Trademarks are Not Names, delivered by Piers Trehane at the Inaugural Meeting of the International Association for Cultivated Plant Taxonomy held in Edinburgh, Scotland in 1998:

    October Glory® is more interesting: it was granted trademark status to another famous nursery group, Princeton Nurserymen's Research Associates in 1974 for use for "maple trees, scions, buds, stem cuttings and root cuttings of the acer rubrum species" and it was noted that the mark was first used commercially in 1961. However, if the mark has been used for a particular cultivar that does not have a particular generic designation, it is highly likely that it has become the de facto generic designation for that cultivar (I can find no evidence of other cultivar names in the promotional material) so the trademark has surely failed and anyone may now be free to use 'October Glory' as a cultivar epithet for that Acer cultivar.​
     
  7. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    I've read the Trehane paper. Notice that he doesn't say he knows for sure about October Glory. Without knowing on a case-by-case basis it seems most apt - and perhaps courteous - to follow the naming used by the originator or their representatives. Different references are styling such names in different fashions, a uniform approach apparently not having arisen - yet. Using this maple as an example, one might see such combinations as

    Acer rubrum October Glory = 'PNI 0268'
    Acer rubrum 'PNI 0268' October Glory

    and probably others.

    That Trademarks are Not Names is, of course, my original point.

    Jacobson, North American Landscape Trees who explained

    "I try to use the designation favored by the company that originated the variety in question, or that controls its propagation rights" also observed

    "Trademarked names last indefinitely, so a wholesale nursery, by making an obnoxious cultivar name and an attractive trademark name, gains financially: it can demand that other wholesalers or retailers pay a fee if they wish to use the trademark name for sales" and that

    "The recent flood of trademark names has caught academics, the public, and many nurseries off guard. Several tree books published in the 1990s accidentally describe the same exact tree in two places--under its cultivar name and under its trademark name."
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2005
  8. alex66

    alex66 Rising Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Date 4/11/2007 one best maple for Italy climate!Leaves very hot wind resistence and autum coulor.......
     

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  9. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Also an RHS Award of Garden Merit plant.
     
  10. Silver surfer

    Silver surfer Generous Contributor 10 Years

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    Inspite of the weather Acer rubrum October Glory is looking good this year.(not as wonderful as Alex's!).
     

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  11. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Amazing specimens assumed to be this introduction are frequent here, year after year a blaze of molten color. However, multiple selections of red maple have been made (and continue to be made) and put on the market in North America - without nursery labels, signs, planting records or other confirmation identification of a given specimen or planting is not certain.
     
  12. Jeff Koelewyn

    Jeff Koelewyn New Member

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    I
    I absolutely agree Daniel.. October Glory is one of the most heavily genericised trademarks around. Our amateurish IPAustralia gave a nursery here the trademark here when Books such as HORTUS and HILLIERS MANUAL of Trees and Shrubs listed October Glory as a variety/cultivar
     
  13. Jeff Koelewyn

    Jeff Koelewyn New Member

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    Hi Ron B, I agree with you wholeheartedly. But please excuse me because I am very pedantic about the trademark farce in horticulture. There is actually no such thing as a trademarked plant . Yes ,the plant has a trademark associated with it but it is not trademarked per se
    Many nurserypeople think that a plant itself gains some sort of "protection" itself because it is ''trademarked". This has been my pet hate (almost obsession) for a long time and being a plant wholesaler I see all this play out at the coalface and am stunned by the ignorance in my industry ( much of it not ignorance but people gaining an advantage)
     
  14. Jeff Koelewyn

    Jeff Koelewyn New Member

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    Very interesting Laurie.
    It seems that Oregon State University uses the words October Glory generically because they offer no variety name
    You say that trademarks are only good for 20 years from time of registration (this does apply to patents) but they can go on forever if they are renewed when the appropriate time comes.....October Glory is still a registered trademark (see USPTO Website) Patents only go for 20 years
    Thank you so much for the link to Piers Trehane's paper
    Does anyone know when the bizarre so called variety name PNI0268 was first used and where it came from? I presume it came from Princeton
     
  15. Jeff Koelewyn

    Jeff Koelewyn New Member

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    The RHS have given an AGM to October Glory and recognise it only as October Glory with no reference to trademark
    I dont really blame even these respected organisations for generically using trademarks. This all adds weight to the argument that these so called trademarks are out of control
    If they referred to the plant as Acer rubrum PNI0268 people wouldnt know what they are talking about because they only know the plant by the genericised trademark
     
  16. Jeff Koelewyn

    Jeff Koelewyn New Member

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    beautifully written Ron......I have finally found a group of people who know what they are talking about re trademarks on plants
     
  17. Jeff Koelewyn

    Jeff Koelewyn New Member

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    These words above by Jacobson are priceless to me ....they exactly back up what I am trying to get across in Australia
    I have a story that will make you laugh at how bad its becoming
    A well respected, experienced Australian gardening personality Don Burke recently wrote an article on the the best 16 New Zealand Cordylines in Australia.
    Of the 16, four of them had Trademarks associated with them. He recognised those four simply by their trademark with no reference to the fact that they were trademarks and no reference to the actual variety names
    To make matters worse ,two of those so called varieties were trademarks (Red Chocolate and Cabernett) for one and the same variety (Cardinal)
    Descriptions came with all the 16 "Varieties and it seems that if you use the trademark Red Chocolate the variety Cardinal will grow a meter taller than by using the trademark Cabernett ...if it wasnt so serious it is downright funny
    I dont blame Don Burke for this because (like everyone) Cardinal is virtually unknown. On our West Coast it is generically known as Red Chocolate and Cabernett on the East Coast
    I will find the link so you can read the article for yourselves
     
  18. Jeff Koelewyn

    Jeff Koelewyn New Member

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    Search on Google and look for SUPERB FOLIAGE PLANTS BURKE'S BACKYARD to find the above story
     
  19. Karl Villareal

    Karl Villareal Well-Known Member

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    saw this in my local nursery and swooned over the color
    october glory.png
     
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  20. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Last edited: Oct 14, 2022

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