Acer pauciflorum

Discussion in 'Maple Photo Gallery' started by maf, Oct 22, 2010.

  1. maf

    maf Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    Acer pubipalmatum

    Westonbirt Arboretum, October 2010.

    I spotted this one by chance, noticing the autumn colours from some distance away - when I first saw it I thought it looks like a palmatum but it is not a palmatum, and sure enough it was labelled Acer pubipalmatum:

    pubip1.jpg pubip2.jpg pubip3.jpg pubip4.jpg

    The size and shape of the leaves is very close to Acer palmatum, much more so than any of the more common related species (shirasawanum, japonicum, psuedosieboldianum etc), and the growth habit is narrowly upright. No pubescence could be seen on the leaves, even the underside, I am guessing it is too late in the season for this to be visible. No seed visible. Autumn colour was very good, with varied orange to red tones, and seemed to be slightly earlier than most of the palmatums in the same area.

    (Some sources have stated that Acer pubipalmatum is a synonym for Acer pauciflorum, if this is confirmed the thread can be renamed)
     
  2. simongrant

    simongrant Active Member Maple Society

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    Re: Acer pubipalmatum

    During a trip to the Arnold Arboretum Boston, I came across 2 specimens of Acer pubipalmatum. I also thought they looked like palmatum but they had obvious pubescence on the leaves, seed and young branches in early June. Looks similar to Acer duplicatoserratum though even more pubescent. Here is a picture of one of them.
     

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  3. maf

    maf Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    Re: Acer pubipalmatum

    Some pictures of the spring foliage and emerging branches of two trees at Westonbirt Arboretum listed as Acer pubipalmatum. Pictures 1-6 are the same tree pictured in the original post above, 7-10 are a different tree growing in another part of the arboretum. The pubescence is very dense but short, especially on the young stems, more like peach fuzz rather than the longer hairs seen on some of the related section palmata species.

    First tree:

    pubipalmatum1.jpg pubipalmatum2.jpg pubipalmatum3.jpg pubipalmatum4.jpg pubipalmatum5.jpg pubipalmatum6.jpg

    Second tree:

    pubipalmatum7.jpg pubipalmatum8.jpg pubipalmatum9.jpg pubipalmatumleafunderside.jpg
     
  4. maf

    maf Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    Flora of China lists Acer pauciflorum as the preferred name so I am changing the name of the thread, leaving a redirect from A. pubipalmatum which is still widely used.
     
  5. timnichols

    timnichols Active Member Maple Society

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    From talking with Cor, it was wrong to list Acer pauciflorum as synonymous with Acer pubipalmatum. These are photos of what is now an agreement of Acer pauciflorum although many are still selling pubipalmatum as pauciflorum. The lobes of Acer pauciflorum are much more rounded. There is a distinct difference between the two when you compare the two species side by side.
     

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  6. maf

    maf Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    Thanks Tim. They are clearly different to the plant at Westonbirt (labelled Acer pubipalmatum) whose photo's I posted above. Do you have any references for "what is now an agreement of Acer pauciflorum" because Flora of China still has them listed as synonymous.
     
  7. timnichols

    timnichols Active Member Maple Society

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    My only reference is conversations Matt had with Cor van Felder and others at the International Maple Society meeting in Belgium as they toured Esveld Nursery. I continued talks with Cor about this tree in Philadelphia a few weeks ago. Flora of China is an excellent place to start, but I trust Cor and Piet De Jong much more
     
  8. emery

    emery Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    I have 2 small plants labelled A. pauciflorum from Esveld, they are identical to Tim's pictures, down to the very good red fall colour. Tim I wonder if your plants came from the same source initially...

    Isn't de Jong one of the consultants for FOC? Not that there aren't disagreements within the group... but what is interesting to me is that the illustration in FOC is clearly not Tim and my plant, but rather similar to the pubipalmatum above. I don't remember whether on mine the young leaves are villous but I rather don't think so.

    The plant list (theplantlist.org) lists pauciflorum and pubipalmatum as distinct accepted species, quoting Tropicos as a source for the latter.
     
  9. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    yes i confirm and agree with emery and Tim .i received mine five years ago from Esveld ,is slow growing and dry conditions resistence orange fall colors.
     
  10. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    for Maples of the World are two different maples info in page 119 for pauciflorum and 121 for pubipalmatum
     
  11. maf

    maf Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    OK, I will try and sort this thread out into two seperate ones when I have more time (not this week). There was an article in the Maple Soc. newsletter a year or two back, that didn't not add to the confusion; I think it was a cultivar, maybe "Blazeaway" or something like that?

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The problem with using Maples of the World as a reference is that it was written more than 20 years ago. It is like a snapshot in time of the taxonomic knowledge of the genus Acer from the late 80's/early 90's and taken alone it is hard or impossible to know which information is still considered correct and which has been reinterpreted in the meantime. The book was rereleased in 2010 but unfortunately it was not updated.
     
  12. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Maples of the World :pauciriflorum 5lobes,pubipalmatum 5-7 . my Aceretum pauciflorum 5 lobes ,pubipalmatum (by Esveld) 5-7 lobes. for the botanist Piotr Banaszczak pubipalmatum 5 lobes
    my pubipalmatum
    politica,aceri e rock roll: Acer pubipalmatum
    the evident difference is the large lobes of Acer pauciriflorum and the samaras -
    i presume that the rootstock change the form of leaves
     
  13. emery

    emery Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    I believe the Leuty tree is A. pubipalmatum, as seen at Westonbirt, and Tim Nichols has posted the correct picture for pauciflorum. I discussed this with Piet de Jong last year and he agrees with this view, and that pubipalmatum and pauciflorum are distinct.

    All this was complicated a few years ago when an English nurseryman introduced and publicized a cultivar of pubipalmatum, calling it pauciflorum.

    As I have both plants I should try and key them out with the new de Langhe/Crowley keys, and see where they end up.

    -E
     

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  14. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    If I knew this tree was controversial I would have never taken a picture of it! (Clearly I was a fool to think it was a great opportunity to document the flowers, leaves, bark, and form)

    Maybe should have left it knocked over instead of tiping back upright, reconnecting the drip line and photographing it! (Someone must have known of this identity crisis mix up and tried to put the tree out of its misery)

    I will unsubscribe until the genetic testing confirmation sorts this one out!
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  15. emery

    emery Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Ha! Yes this is actually one of the most controversial maples and people are all over the place with it. Genetic testing would be a great idea, we just need to find someone to sponsor it! :) cheers.
     

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