Acer palmatum'Red Spider'? yes or no?

Discussion in 'Maples' started by gin-ger, Jul 14, 2006.

  1. gin-ger

    gin-ger Active Member

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    Location:
    Tidewater, Virginia, USA
    I purchased this plant dormant in February from the most reputable nursery in our area. It was labeled Acer palmatum'Red Spider.' Now that it has leafed out, I don't think it is a Red Spider...I thought it was going to be a linearlobum type. Mature leaves are a very pretty purple-red, almost black & rather large...3.5-4 inches. Any help with identification will be appreciated.
     

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  2. Scion Swapper

    Scion Swapper Active Member

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    Location:
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    That looks like my Red Spiders too. Mine are fresh grafts and they have the same leaves as yours. Perhaps, like with most linearlobums, the leaves are broad on young trees and thin-out as the tree matures.

    Brian
     
  3. agentf1

    agentf1 Member

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    Are all cutleafs like this?
     
  4. mjh1676

    mjh1676 Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I believe if you search this forum you will find mention of two plants labled Red Spider, but spelled differently.

    The linearlobum Red SPIDER is typical for the group and, if I am not mistaken, a seedling of Atrolineare.

    The other is Red SPYDER and is a RIBBON LEAF type plant as you have. I am not very familiar with the coloring of this plant, so I am not able to say you have it or not, but I think it is the more desireable of the two as the linearlobum SPIDER is not very distinguished.

    Search the forum here. There is a good deal written.

    In regards to the term "Cut leaf," I would say that the plant pictured is similar to the cut-leaf varieties that have been considered ribbon leaf plants in the past. They fall somewhere beween palmatum and matsumarae, but do not often approach linearlobum appearance.

    Regards,
     
  5. gin-ger

    gin-ger Active Member

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    Thanx for the info, ya'll.
    After searching the forum & stumbling across a Google advanced image search, http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&rls=RNWE%2CRNWE%3A2004-34%2CRNWE%3Aen&q=Acer+palmatum+red+spider&btnG=Search
    it appears there are 2 cultivars, 'Red Spider" and 'Red Spyder' (a red form of 'Koto No Ito') & both are sold under one or both names, as happens too often in the trade. I think Brian & I have 'Red Spider' & I thought I was getting 'Red Spyder'...one more example of the confusion encountered in the wonderful world of Japanese Maples!
    Ginger
     
  6. Frank Byles

    Frank Byles Member Maple Society

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    To add to your confusion there is also a A.p."Red Spider Web' which is a dissectum so very similer to A.p.'Red Filigree Lace' I question if they could be the same. I have both 'Red Spider/Spyder' and 'Red Spider/Spyder Web' which are very different from each other, one being a dissectum and the other being a "fat" linearelobum or just a good matsumurae leaf. I think it is unfortunate that people don't spell spider or spyder consistantly and thus we have lots of confusion. If the two spellings are truely differrent and represent truely different trees then it would be nice to have precise descriptions of each.
     
  7. Maple_Lady

    Maple_Lady Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Location:
    La Center, WA USA Zone 8a
    I have a similar problem with Atrolineare and Red Cloud, both are linearelobum and I can't tell them apart. I really watch my labels so they don't fall out of the pot. As to offering various maple cultivars for sale - I will have to pick one or the other as I do not have enough energy or space to carry two that are so similar. For instance I only carry Red Dragon for my red dissectum and between the coral barks I've changed from Sango kaku to Beni kawa.

    It can be exasperating with all the names and variations that have recently entered into the acer world. Sam
     

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