Acer palmatum variety to Zone 10?

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Jose Velasco, Nov 7, 2004.

  1. I would like to know cultivars names or varieties of palmatums that support zone 10. In my city aprox. 40º C in Agost, although I have semi-shadows places to put in.

    In this moment I have an Acer palmatum atropurpureum and other no palmatums like acer pseudoplatanus or acer opalus sub. granantensis.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Perhaps. I explained very well, I am asking by japanese maples most suitables for my zone 10, where in two months in the year the temperature is near 40ºC.

    Thanks.
     
  3. Elmore

    Elmore Active Member 10 Years

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    No Way Jose

    Jose, as far as I know none are suggested for a zone 10 climate so therefore you are pushing an envelope. You are in a position to learn of their heat tolerance and we to learn from you. Where are you located? Why don't you register on this site?
     
  4. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Hi Jose:

    You are about the same as we get for heat.
    We get cooler in the Winter than you get
    also.

    Just join the UBC forums and tell us
    where you want to grow Maples.

    Jim
     
  5. J. Velasco

    J. Velasco Member

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    Location:
    Murcia (Spain) Zone 10.
    Ok. I am registered, I didn't do it before, because my english is some poor and perhaps I don't explain very well, but well I am user forum now.

    I will start saying I like very very much the maples, where I live there are two maples indigenous, concretly, Acer monspessulanum and Acer opalus sub. granatensis, first has a leaf like Acer buergerianum, but is more rounded, the second is perhaps like an acer pseudoplatanus but the leaf is very much rounded, the two maples have yellow color in fall, they are very beautifull, I am trying to reproduce it by seeds.

    Well, about my initial question I would like to know what cultivar or variety from japanese maples are more suitable for my zone 10, two month in summer we have 40ºC, although I have a place in my garden lightly more cool, but will be two month very heat. What japanese maples or other fall coloured maples do you recomend me ?

    Thanks, I hope that you understand me all the text without very much problem.
    Bye.
     
  6. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Hola Jose:

    Recepción a los foros de UBC - welcome to the
    UBC forums.

    There are several Japanese Maples you can grow
    in Spain. You can grow Japanese Maples in full
    sun where you are if need be. Cultivar selection
    will be your primary concern as many variegates
    will not like your heat unless you can protect them
    from the hot afternoon sun and the hot winds. Then
    again there are some variegates that can tolerate
    direct sun also.

    Do you have an idea what varieties you would like to
    grow? If not, then I suggest you look in this web site
    URL below and look all through the many Maples
    listed.

    http://www.esveld.nl/catal/heestersa.htm

    If you see a Maple and want to grow it or know more
    about it then just write and ask. We will know most
    of them but of course not all of them. I think for you
    that a European source is your best bet to buy Maples
    from.

    You can grow any of the nursery industry standard
    Maples listed below:

    Bloodgood
    Bonfire
    Burgundy Lace
    Butterfly
    Crimson Queen
    EmperorI
    Ever Red
    Inaba shidare
    Ornatum
    Oshio beni
    Sango kaku
    Shishigashira
    Viridis
    Waterfall

    For dwarf cultivars you can grow Kashima, Kiyohime, Kotohime
    and Tamahime with no problems.

    Other variegates you can grow are Beni tsukasa, Higasayama, Iijima
    sunago, Kagiri nishiki, Orido nishiki and Roseo Marginatum (the
    old Japanese form which is not the same plant as Kagiri nishiki).

    Unusual leafed varieties such as Hagoromo, Koshimino, Kurui jishi
    Maiko, Momenshide, Okushimo and Shindeshojo can grow for you
    in Spain.

    Other notable Maples you can grow rather easily are Beni kawa,
    Osakazuki, Sherwood Flame, Shigarami, Suminagashi, Tana and
    Wou nishiki.

    All those above are just some names of Japanese Maples I know
    you can grow in Spain. There are many other Maples but they may
    require special growing considerations more so than the ones I've
    listed.

    This will get you started. I strongly suggest you buy a book on
    Maples such as the Vertrees/Gregory 'Japanese Maples' or the
    van Gelderen 'Maples of the World' or the van Gelderen 'Maples
    for Gardens: A Color Encyclopedia' book to have as a most valued
    reference.

    Let us know if you have any questions.

    Best regards,

    Jim
     
  7. J. Velasco

    J. Velasco Member

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    Location:
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    Jim thank you very much for your wonderful answer, you say that "some variegates that can tolerate direct sun also.". What mean variegates? and what variegates you say that they tolerate direct sun?
     
  8. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Hi Jose:

    Without getting overly technical early, variegates are
    Japanese Maples that show various colors in the leaves.
    Mostly we see white and cream colors but we do see
    combinations of pink, cream and white colors also.

    I think you should browse through the Maple Photo
    Gallery and look at all of the Maples that the members
    of this forum have posted. You can learn a lot, perhaps
    more than you can from any book just by looking at those
    excellent photos. What the photos represent is a collection
    of Maples showing a large and diverse variety of Japanese
    Maples that are available to us.

    http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=2102

    http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=2142

    http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=2061

    http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=2844

    We get just as hot as you do and for as long as you do. The
    reason why we are a Zone 8 here is due to the cold that we
    can get in the Winter, not due the annual heat. Where I am
    is classified as a desert, really no different than Phoenix or
    Las Vegas for warm to hot days in a growing season.

    You can grow the nursery industry standard form of Butterfly
    in full sun in Spain. We've grown Butterfly and Roseo
    Marginatum out in full sun for years. They do not burn up as
    easily as most people might think. As long as they have ample
    water they will do just fine. Each successive year grown in the
    ground they will become more tolerant of the heat. Most
    variegated forms of Japanese Maples do better with some
    morning sun and afternoon shade but what is more important
    is to protect these trees from the hot winds. If we can block
    off the hot winds or plant in a protected location we can grow
    a host of variegated Japanese Maples where we are as well
    as you in Spain. The same is true for most but not all forms
    of Japanese Maples that if we can protect them from the hot
    winds, give them ample water we can grow them in the warmer
    locations most anywhere.

    Jim
     
  9. J. Velasco

    J. Velasco Member

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    Location:
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    Ok Jim. I understand you perfectly. Thank you very much for your extensive answers.

    I have found a site in spain what they have palmatum cultivars and variegates, curiously they have butterfly, but they does not sugest exposition to full sun to butterfly else shadow, also they have a palmatum called 'Fire glow' with exposition to full sun, also have Acer palmatum Osakazuki, Acer palmatum Shishigashira.

    cio and thanks.
     
  10. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Location:
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    Hi Jose:

    In the URl I listed showing the forms of Butterfly, the
    image to the far right is the form we grew in full sun.
    The two images in the middle of the grouping of four
    photos is the form never to try to grow in hot sun. With
    that much cream color in the variegation the leaves
    will burn up rather easily. For that form morning sun
    and afternoon shade works best. Even with the sun
    tolerant form of Butterfly as long as it is protected
    from hot winds you should be fine with it but I have
    no idea which form of Butterfly the nursery is selling.
    With that in mind give their Butterfly morning sun,
    afternoon shade to be safe.

    Fireglow can be grown in full sun although that Maple
    has to be protected from the hot winds or it will show
    leaf burn and some leaf scorch a lot during the Summer.

    Osakazuki can tolerate wind and the sun the best of all
    of those Maples you listed.

    Shishigashira can be grown in full sun but it also will
    have its leaves burn some due to hot winds. It is better
    to protect it. Mine is subjected to hot winds all the time
    but my plant is 20 years old.

    There is another issue in regards to Maples grown
    in full sun where you are and that is planted Maples
    as opposed to growing Maples in containers. Maples
    can withstand the sun better if they are planted in the
    ground. Grown in containers with any missed watering,
    the leaves on most any Japanese Maple will burn, some
    Maples rather severely. If you are to start off growing
    Japanese Maples in containers then it will be best for
    you to give them some protection for the hot winds and
    mid to late afternoon sun.

    Best regards.

    Jim
     
  11. graftedmaplecollector

    graftedmaplecollector Active Member 10 Years

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    Location:
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    I live in a nasty zone 9, last winter it went down to -10 fahrenheit
    and 105f this summer. Also, we are very humid making each temp
    extreme worse, but we experience oddly enough a drought during
    mid-summer. Anyway Ive had luck with sango kaku, moonfire, tamuke yama,
    beni shi en and garnet in the ground, but when I watered well and
    planted with drainage and most important under a larger established
    shade tree(I have magnolisa). However, I grow many fragile varieties
    in containers with plenty shade such as flavescens, ornatum, toyama nishiki,
    kasagi yama etc. I just move up a size every couple of years.
    I have an orange dream and orangeola in whiskey barrel halves that
    are large healthy and beautiful, if not as bright as they can be
    its better than nothing.
     
  12. webwolf

    webwolf Active Member 10 Years

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    Growing maples in hot climates

    Hi everyone.
    I also grow maples in a very hot climate. We had 43°C a few weeks ago. Here are a few hints for Jose.
    Do not grow your maples in containers. Mulch the soil at least 10cm deep. Grow bigger trees around your maples to give some shade. Never wet the leaves when you water the plant.
    If you grow your maples in such hot climates you have to make sacrifices. If the temperture is tooo hot your leaves will scorch no matter what.
    You get exellent spring colour in most maples but hardly any autumn colour. All disectums will just shrivel up.
    Putting the maples in the ground is the best I have done.
    My "Stella Rosa" grafting survived the heatwave, the mother plant in a large tub with plenty of mulch looks pretty sad.
    regards
    Wolfgang
     
  13. Bill

    Bill Active Member 10 Years

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    Jose - you might want to contact Jose Almandoz, who moderates the Rhododendron (and a few other) groups on yahoo. I believe that he can be reached at rhodo-owner@yahoogroups.com

    Jose lives in the north, in or near Bilbao, which is a zone 9, I think, and the Atlantic influence is not going to be the same as your Mediterranean influence, but he may have some suggestions in any case
     
  14. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Location:
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    The dilemma as always is how do we grow Maples in
    an environment they are not used to? The environmental
    differences we have to endure at any location is information
    that others elsewhere need to know. How we help is by
    posting what we know or in some cases what we’ve learned
    the hard way. Admitting failure for us as individuals benefits
    others in other locales. We need to know that stuff so when
    we want to grow a Maple here or wherever else we have an
    idea as to what we are up against before we ever buy one in
    hopes of it gaining some age to it. It takes a while for these
    plants to adapt to climatic differences they are not used to.
    I'd only deal with people that have grown the plants in a
    similar, warm climate but I'd pay particular attention to those
    people that have grown Maples rather than other kinds of
    plants. Book knowledge tells us very little in how to grow
    certain plants in a warm and dry climate. We can get by
    okay in a warm and moist climate but all bets are off the
    table in a warm and dry climate as well as a cold and dry
    climate.

    Bill:

    Actually, I am agreeing with you that Jose should contact
    someone in Spain but I must caution that it is far better to
    contact someone in Spain that also has grown or is currently
    growing Maples to get the best advice on Maple growing
    culture.

    Jim
     
  15. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Location:
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    I believe that, as Jim points out, it is possible to grow A.P. cultivars in south east Spain. It is indeed zone 10 but winters are milder than in the San Joaquin valley, near the coast it never freezes.
    However José, and any other enthusiasts in that area, should be aware of the extra time and effort that they will have to put up in order to have something that meet their expectations. Toulouse, in southern France, has more favorable conditions, but for instance, a watering system that breaks down in the summer months while I am away for a weekend , may mean heavy damage to my plants.

    Gomero
     
  16. graftedmaplecollector

    graftedmaplecollector Active Member 10 Years

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    let us know your results.
     
  17. J. Velasco

    J. Velasco Member

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    Location:
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    Thank you very much at all. I have a Acer palmatum atropurpureum since September, now it is well, of course in this moment without leaves, but I am waiting what will happen when the summer arrives.

    Thanks for your advices. Ciao.
     
  18. cafernan

    cafernan Active Member

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    Location:
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    Hola Jose
    muy tarde, ya lo se quisiera aportar algo de mi corta experiencia con arces en zona 10. Yo estoy en Mar del Plata, Argentina, a orillas del mar. Los veranos son cada vez mas calidos, si bien no llegan a ser de 40 º C estan entre 27 y 35º. Creo que s mas o menos lo mismo. Sabras ya que los arces no toleran el viento calido ni tampoco el calor. Por eso te sugieroq ue, aun cuando la literatura diga que se benefician con el sol de la mañana y proteccion por la tarde, ese poco sol sera suficiente para quemarte las puntas de las hojas. Mejor busca la semisombra de algun arbol o una sombra muy luminosa, pero evita el sol.
    Espero leas este mensaje despues de tanto tiempo y te sea de utilidad.
    Saludos desde aca abajo, Carlos

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2007
  19. anipi

    anipi Member

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    Hi Jose,

    Are you still out there after all this time? How is your acer growing? I am wanting to grow an acer in Spain. My friend has one which he has grown under a palm tree. This gives it more shade and retains the moisture. He also has acers as bonsai´s so he can move them out of the intense heat here in the summer.
     
  20. wetcloud

    wetcloud Active Member

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    Location:
    Madrid, Spain zone 8
    I know a person who has an Acer palmatum 'Seiryu' in Mallorca on a container and it is doing pretty well in spite of intense summer heat of this year in that area.
     
  21. pensylvaticum

    pensylvaticum Active Member

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    Location:
    Southwestern Pennsylvania,USA[Zone 6b/7]
    I have seen maples grown in southern california and they suffer terribly in the climate. Most of the A.palmatum, Japonicum,, Shirasawanum, etc are tolerant to Zone 8-9, and Zone nine is pushing it very far.They need minimally 40 days dormancy or they will perish.There are Acer species though which are interesting and will do well in warmer zones- I have one which is Acer Pentaphyllum, which looks almost like a spider and has green linearilobum like leaves which are deeply divided, and it can be semi evergreen, will grow to 10m in warm climate but in cooler it is a very small shrub(mine is a shrub) so you would be better to look at species which are more suited to a hot climate. There are interesting plants we can not have in cooler climated areas-Acer Oliverianum, would love this but it is just too cool here, and many others which are indiginous to southeast asia, noth vietnam, Burma, and some a little further south or southern china. I would gladly help with information. Please do not try to grow Acer palmatum, Japonicum, and Shirasawan it will only lead to disappointment and some very sad, sick trees.
    Best wishes,
    P
     
  22. Kathy2019

    Kathy2019 New Member

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    Location:
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    Hi, I've just joined and wondering if there's anyone on this thread still around who has had any luck growing any type of maple in Mallorca?
     
  23. 0soyoung

    0soyoung Active Member

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    I am aware of a gentleman in the Azores (USDA zone 11) who apparently is able to keep acer palmatums. I've seen pix of decade-ish old trees in plantings (as opposed to potted). So it cannot be ruled out in Mallorca necessarily, but may be too much of a challenge. There is a chilling time requirement that is something like 1,000 hours below something like 5C and there is desiccation by wind/sun/aridity to contend with in summer (i.e., dealt with by sheltering from sun and wind). A maple species other than palmatum may be easier to keep, but I cannot make any specific recommendation, but others may.
     
  24. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I do not think heat is a limiting factor with Japanese maples, Southern Japan is very hot in the summer time but it is a moist heat. The problem in Mediterranean climate is that it is hot and dry in the summer so most of the time Japanese maples will show significant leaf scorch by the end of the summer. This is more an aesthetic issue than a life threatening condition. The Açores islands have a maritime climate with more moisture in the summer time than the Mediterranean area (Hydrangeas and tree ferns grow wild there), that's why Japanese maples will do fine there. One possible limiting factor, as Florida gardeners could very well explain, is winter cooling, I am not aware of any scientific study that determines the exact requirements but anecdotal evidence shows that for long term health, temperatures should dip at least in the low 40's. One absolute limiting factor is day length, deciduous trees need to go dormant and this is mainly triggered by the shortening of the day length (temperature is also an additional external stimulus, that's why you need at the same time some cooling) . If you try to grow Japanese maples in the Equator they will never go dormant and will eventually die.
    Therefore, yes, you can grow Japanese maples in Murcia, Mallorca or Naples, as long as you make sure they are properly watered throughout the summer and you can live with possibly ugly looking plants from, say, mid-July onwards
    Gomero
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
    wcutler likes this.
  25. Kathy2019

    Kathy2019 New Member

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    Thanks very much, Oso Young and Gomero. Yes, the problem is that even in winter our temperature doesn't drop that much.
    I do know that there are two types native to Andalucia, but they grow alongside rivers. I'll try to find them again and I'll post here when I know. Thanks again
     

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