Acer palmatum var. dissectum 'Toyama Nishiki'

Discussion in 'Acer palmatum cultivars (photos)' started by rkburgess, Oct 30, 2005.

  1. rkburgess

    rkburgess Active Member

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    What does everyone here think of this maple? It has been a very good dissectum for me and has such a unique appearance when compared to the other green dissectums. This picture just shows it in a white phase but it changes throughout the entire growing season with pinks, reds and white mixed in.

    Kent
     

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  2. krautz33

    krautz33 Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: Acer palmatum dis. 'Toyama Nishiki'

    Beautiful tree! I planted a one gallon tree this year, hopefully mine will be as pretty as yours.

    Mike
     
  3. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: Acer palmatum dis. 'Toyama Nishiki'

    How come it's not reddish or purplish?
     
  4. rkburgess

    rkburgess Active Member

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    Re: Acer palmatum dis. 'Toyama Nishiki'

    I have found that in our hot and humid climate here in St. Louis this tree needs alot of shade to avoid leaf scorch. When I put it in the shade the base color stays mostly green with alot of pink, red and white and different times during the growing season. In this case the variagation is all white.

    Kent
     
  5. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: Acer palmatum dis. 'Toyama Nishiki'

    Customarily this is a reddish or purplish cultivar, the plant in your picture has the pure, spring green coloring of a non-red selection.
     
  6. rkburgess

    rkburgess Active Member

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    Re: Acer palmatum dis. 'Toyama Nishiki'

    This tree when I received it was the customary color of 'Toyama Nishiki'. I grew it in a container the entire first first year. It retained the customary colors of 'Toyama Nishiki'. It had more leaf scorch than I was willing to live with so I moved it to a shady spot in the garden and since than it has shown the characteristics I have mentioned twice above now. The experience that I have had is pretty customary with maples based on the conditions they are grown in.

    Kent
     
  7. rkburgess

    rkburgess Active Member

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    Re: Acer palmatum dis. 'Toyama Nishiki'

    Ron, I have two 1gal. 'Toyama Nishiki' from another nursery that do pretty much the same thing for me here. I have 2 'Ukigumo' from 2 different nurseries that have never produced any of the customary colors of that cultivar. 'Tsuma gaki' is a beautiful tree for me here but it is never as intense as it is in some pictures I see. I have about 100 Japanese Maples at this time and most of them grow true to what one would expect out of them, true to the cultivar. 'Toyama Nishiki' has been a guessing game as to what I'm going to get. It has actually made this a fun tree to have. I will try to get a picture of it next year when it is in a different state of growth than the picture I posted above.

    Kent
     
  8. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Re: Acer palmatum dis. 'Toyama Nishiki'

    Kent, sometimes it does not matter where the
    tree is grown and if we see or not the color
    changes that are correct for the name of the
    Maple in question. Clearly the shapes and
    sizes of the leaf lobes and the shade of green
    color of your Maple is not right for Toyama
    nishiki. Certainly not correct for the original
    form that came in from Japan. So, if your
    Maple is not a Toyama nishiki, then which
    one of the these variegated green dissectums
    below is it?

    Ao shidare variegated

    Dissectum variegatum

    Goshiki shidare

    Technically, the true forms of Ornatum
    variegated, Beni shidare tricolor and
    Beni shidare variegated are variegated
    red dissectums.

    A quick note: The variegated green dissectums
    can still show pink coloration in the Spring,
    sometimes more pink in color than green.
    We can also see pink color in the second
    flush of new growth and again in the mid to
    late Summer new growth. All three of the
    green dissectums listed above can do this
    but only one will hold its pink coloring in
    the leaves longer than 2 weeks to a month
    depending on where the Maple is growing.
    As an example for us here, the pink on two
    of the Maples will only last about 2 weeks
    whereas the other if given ample morning
    sun with some afternoon shade can hold the
    pink for about a month and then the pink will
    fade and become a bronze shaded green. Two
    of the Maples above can have their pink color
    become the bronze shaded green later, one of
    them will not as it will go from a pink and fade
    out to the base color of green throughout the
    rest of the Maple, notwithstanding the white
    coloring also in the variegation of the leaf..

    It makes no never you mind to me what
    nursery sold you this Maple and perhaps
    another Maple as being Toyama nishiki.
    I can say your Maple is a beautiful plant,
    one of the nicer examples I've seen, of
    another variegated green dissectum instead.

    Jim
     
  9. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Re: Acer palmatum dissectum 'Toyama nishiki'

    If we were to look online at various photos of
    Toyama nishiki we will see a variety of Maples
    called Toyama nishiki and it could very well be
    that none of them are the true form that came
    in from Japan.

    The variegated dissectums came about as a variant
    of a non-variegated dissectum. Thus Beni shidare
    variegated and tricolor were variants from the old
    Beni shidare Maple, which is a red leafed dissectum.
    The same correlation is true for Ornatum variegated
    which is the variegated form of Ornatum.

    For Toyama nishiki we have a problem from the outset
    in that Toyama nishiki is the variegated form of Toyama
    which is a red dissectum that few people have ever seen.
    Mr. Vertrees lists Sotoyama nishiki as a synonym of
    Toyama nishiki and it is here where the real problem
    that we had in the nursery lies. We felt the Sotoyama
    name should be Saotoyama instead indicating a green
    dissectum. Most of the Toyama nishiki we see available
    from nurseries are a two-toned green (dark green and
    lighter green) in the color with heavy white variegation.
    For the variegates the Toyama nishiki that we more
    commonly see will have the most white in the leaf
    than all of the other forms of variegated dissectums
    will have, even the variegated red form of Toyama
    will have more white in the leaf than an Ornatum
    variegated and the variegated Beni shidares will
    have. So in effect one reason for the disparity of
    the photos that we will see online of Toyama nishiki
    is due to the fact that we are dealing with two forms
    of not the same Maple. One a variegated green
    dissectum and the other a variegated red dissectum.
    The true form Ornatum variegated is seldom seen
    propagated any more and the true form Beni shidare
    variegated with up to 7 and 8 colors in the leaves
    (one to two shades of pink, one to two shades of red,
    white, gold, cream, light green, dark green) is almost
    extinct today, generally only seen in very select
    collections and never was propagated much in the
    US. It was a few people’s feeling this Maple never
    was introduced to Europe but Beni shidare tricolor
    had been sent to Europe instead and is probably still
    being propagated today.

    The Maple we more commonly see but this is not
    generally pointed out as so few people know the
    origin of this plant well is that what we mostly see
    available for a variegated green dissectum that has
    lots of pink in the Spring and again in the mid to
    late Summer growth is the Dissectum variegatum.
    There are two forms of the Dissectum variegatum
    of which one of the forms has been sold as Goshiki
    shidare for years in the US. This is true for both
    forms, in cooler climates the pink coloring on a
    green base colored leaf will hold much longer than
    the pink will hold here for us. Even in Eugene,
    Oregon, the pink can last up to 6 weeks (sometimes
    up to 5 weeks in Roseburg to the South of Eugene)
    but for us the pink will fade out and later turn a
    bronze shaded green (bronze overtone on a green
    leaf) in about two weeks, depending on how much
    sun the plant gets. If we grew these forms in high
    shade the pink will last longer but we saw much
    less white in the variegation as a result, which is
    why our true form of Goshiki shidare had to be
    given ample morning sun otherwise we did not
    see much white in the variegation, the same was
    also true for the one form of Dissectum variegatum
    which is actually a tricolor form of Dissectum
    variegatum.

    Confused yet?

    Let me add to the intrigue. There was a sport off the
    Saotoyama variegated form that has lobes even more
    stringy in their shape than the new growth usually has.
    This stringy sport was propagated in Oregon and was
    outlet to a few collections. What became an issue
    is that the stringy sport would hold its form much
    better in warmer climates grown in sun and in the
    cooler areas of Oregon the strings later became
    strap-like as the leaves grew older during the
    year as the Maple got older in age, regardless of
    being planted in the ground or grown in containers.
    There are some examples of the stringy around but
    they are rather limited. Even the reverted forms in
    Oregon have been propagated and sold, so someone
    I know that had 4 to 5 different forms of Toyama
    nishiki come in from different sources in Oregon
    and from one source in Washington in recent years
    that tells me those Maples all appear to be different
    in either color and/or leaf shape does not surprise
    me one bit. We will have to wait until these Maples
    get some age on them to better know what he has but
    for now, it could very well be that all of those Maples
    purchased as being Toyama nishiki could indeed all
    be different forms of a variety of similar or in one
    instance same variegated green and red dissectums.

    This will be it from me for a while on the issue
    of Toyama nishiki. Don’t be surprised if I do not
    answer anyone’s questions anytime soon. I filled
    in a lot of blanks for some people already with all
    the above. Now we go back to Kent’s Maple.

    Jim
     
  10. mjh1676

    mjh1676 Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Acer palmatum dis. 'Toyama Nishiki'

    HI Kent,

    Here are Toyamas from 2 different sources. The lightest leaved plant was photographed on 4/25/05 and the darker leaved photo was from 5/5/05. Beyond this, both of the plants burned up so there were no further leaves to photograph.

    Do either of these remind you of your maple? The difference will be is that they are still not stable being 2nd year plants, but maybe the coloring will be close?

    MJH
     

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  11. rkburgess

    rkburgess Active Member

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    Re: Acer palmatum dis. 'Toyama Nishiki'

    The coloring on all three of mine the first year looked like the one on the right. The one pictured here was a 5 gal. plant of nice size. The two I received two years ago were newer grafts in one gal. containers. All three of them are mostly green now with alot of the white, red, pink, in the spring mostly but some throughout the entire growing season. I have seen some 'Toyama Nishiki' in nurseries around here do the same thing.

    Kent

    Kent
     
  12. silver_creek

    silver_creek Active Member

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    Re: Acer palmatum dis. 'Toyama Nishiki'

    This photo of a plant labelled "Toyama Nishiki" was taken in May 05- I have seen several plants of this from 2 different Oregon grower, both in sun (and it did not burn) and shade, that seem to be the green variegated form.
     

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  13. rkburgess

    rkburgess Active Member

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    Re: Acer palmatum dis. 'Toyama Nishiki'

    My plants looked very much like your picture when I received them.

    Kent
     
  14. rkburgess

    rkburgess Active Member

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    Re: Acer palmatum dis. 'Toyama Nishiki'

    MJH, out of your pictures mine looked more like the one on the right, very much like the picture posted by Silver_Creek.

    Kent
     
  15. jimweed

    jimweed Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: Acer palmatum dis. 'Toyama Nishiki'

    RKBurgess that first photo you posted, Is that tree sick or does it just do that every year? I see the white leaves in green Japanese Maples quite a bit here, just like that. But I usually notice the white leaves are kinda damp feeling, with black dots on the underside and slightly shriviled up with the tips curled. Which always concerns me with early symptoms of vertilicium wilt. Or not! Man you guys sure do know your Maple trees! And it sure is an awesome looking tree. Jim
     
  16. rkburgess

    rkburgess Active Member

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    Re: Acer palmatum dis. 'Toyama Nishiki'

    No Jim, the tree is very healthy and is doing quite nice.


    Kent
     
  17. mapleman77

    mapleman77 Active Member

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    Hey Kent,

    can you post some more pictures of your "Toyama Nishiki" (or at least what you THINK is your Toyama Nishiki). It's been some years since you took the last ones and they can change as they get older--I'm curious!

    David
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2008
  18. mapleman77

    mapleman77 Active Member

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    I just got in a one gallon from Eastfork. It looks absolutely healthy and wonderful (as always she never fails to impress). I'll post a couple of pictures in a few days when it perks up a little bit.

    David
     

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