Acer palmatum 'Tsuma gaki'

Discussion in 'Acer palmatum cultivars (photos)' started by mendocinomaples, Apr 6, 2005.

  1. mendocinomaples

    mendocinomaples Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    New spring growth is wonderful with the tips of the palmate leaves dipped in red. Plant is on the shrubby side... 6' by 5' in 5 years in the ground (here in NW CA). Very nice full spectrum fall color...yellow orange to red.
     

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  2. jhayes5032

    jhayes5032 Active Member

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    tsuma gaki in spring
     

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  3. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    One thing I've always admired about this Maple
    is the late Summer growth as it develops Fall
    colors. Notice the colors of the new growth
    as opposed to the older growth that has not
    turned Fall color yet. Both plants as seen in
    the second photo are in containers. These
    photos were taken November 29, 2005.

    Jim
     

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  4. krautz33

    krautz33 Active Member 10 Years

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    This is a picture of my tree. I just purchased this tree in the fall. I am excited to see the spring color. The garden bed should be awesome. It contains Shin Deshojo, Shishigashira, Wou Nishiki, Beni hemi, Beni Hoshi, Shania, and Red Willow.

    Mike
     

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  5. rkburgess

    rkburgess Active Member

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    Here is a 'Tsuma gaki' I have been doing some training on. It is looking like a pretty cool tree finally.
     

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  6. PoorOwner

    PoorOwner Active Member 10 Years

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    My small plant. It usually looks worse as the weather heats up.
     

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  7. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Since the 'Tsuma gaki' came back to the top, I can't help but I have to show you the leaves of the Tsuma gaki while unfolding in early Spring. It is one of the prettiest sights in the garden, one would say they look like flying birds!!, I'm sure those of you who have the plant have admired the spectacle.

    Gomero
     

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  8. krautz33

    krautz33 Active Member 10 Years

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    Spring picture of my two
     

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  9. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Nice looking tree, did it originally come from a bonsai grower ? The leaves look very different from the others pictured here, particularly the basal lobes pointing back alongside the petiole. The lobes also seem more deeply divided. Some of the others pictured are missing those lobes. Could it be a form of 'Tsuma Beni' ? A similarly leafed form, to your plant, is being sold as 'Tsuma Beni' here. Just trying to understand some of the confusion between 'Tsuma Gaki' and 'Tsuma Beni' and maybe multiple forms, or possibly similar plants being given the mentioned cultivar names. Also was wondering if any forms of either cultivar have light green stems. Appreciate any comments.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2007
  10. nelran

    nelran Active Member

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    Beatiful tree. How old is it? Also is spectacular the white tree upper back in the fist picture (dogwood?). Really, is a nice garden krautz33! Good job...

    Nelson
     
  11. nelran

    nelran Active Member

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    well, It was a long wait, but now it looks like it is waking up....
     

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  12. benishien

    benishien Active Member Maple Society

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    Here is mine before I left the island and dug it up. It never did good in this exposed spot. It would get leaf burn from the window it was next to and wind whipped from the ocean breeze. The two years I took care of it a late frost always made it drop its flowers but this year it is well protected and as soon as the appear I will post some flower pictures.
     

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  13. krautz33

    krautz33 Active Member 10 Years

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    Gus and Rocky playing under Tsuma gaki in spring
     

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  14. winterhaven

    winterhaven Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hey, I read in another thread that some were growing this cv in full sun. My recollection was that this cv needed mostly shade. To those growing it - what conditions have you found successful?
     
  15. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    The new edition of "Japanese Maples" says "any" under the light requirements for 'Tsuma gaki'. I am only growing a small plant that I received last September, so do not have much experience with it yet. One thing I can say is that the plant I received was a bit ratty looking compared to the other cultivars in the same order. We had a lot of windy weather in the UK last summer, so I suspect it does not do well in a combination of wind and sun.

    I also seem to remember reading somewhere that 'Tsuma gaki' prefers shade from strong afternoon sun, but I do not remember where I read this.

    If I get any good pictures this spring I will post them here later.

    Edit: Here is a picture I took at Westonbirt last spring:
    Tsuma gaki.jpg
    P.S. it took me literally years to realise that the translation of "tsuma" as "nail" referred to fingernails rather than something a carpenter would use. It is obvious if you look at the pictures. I believe "tsuma" can also mean "wife" which fits in with this translation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2010
  16. winterhaven

    winterhaven Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    LOL!

    When I googled the tree I saw a few people mention leaf burn in full sun. I think when I originally looked up this c/v I got that stuck in my head. And a Tsuma gaki that I watched at a nursery last growing season was in true full sun (all day and their micro-climate is much warmer than mine) and it looked so ratty I thought they might loose the tree. But I should have anticipated that just because a tree doesn't like unrelenting sun that doesn't mean it's going to need almost full shade. And today, upon revisiting the issue I noticed that those reporting scorched leaves were talking about very young trees. And it's been established that the youngsters of any c/v are more fragile.

    So I'm thinking that where I put mine, in almost full shade (dappled morning light and a short amount of dappled late afternoon), is probably not the best location. Since I'm going to move it, I'd like to pick a more appropriate spot. Which is why I'd love to hear from people what conditions they have tried and where it has thrived.

    That picture from Westonbirt is gorgeous. Do you recall what sun exposure it had?

    I especially like when the tree displays the more lime colored leaves like shown by mendocinomaples', PoorOwner's, and by Gomero's. I'm guessing more sun than not would increase the odds of that. Or perhaps the leaves look like that when first opening and then darken regardless of sun/shad exposure? Or perhaps it is a maturity issue?

    Mine that I bought bare leafed last winter is starting to swell. I can't wait to see it for the first time in leaf. Now if I could just figure out where to put it! :)
     
  17. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    The area at Westonbirt where the Japanese Maple collection is planted is kind of very light dappled shade, some mature Larch have been thinned out and limbed up (I think) and the maples planted beneath. The picture in this post gives you a general idea of the area: http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showpost.php?p=233392&postcount=52
     
  18. winterhaven

    winterhaven Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Great link, thanks!

    OK. I think I know what I should look for on the property. I want it to be close enough to a well traveled path that the detail on the leaves is visible even to nearsighted people like me. I want more sun than not, but not a hot location or one with uninterrupted mid day sun. Basically, it's ideal location for color and happiness seems to be pretty much the same as a lot of the JM's. Hmm. Have to think about this.
     
  19. amazingmaples

    amazingmaples Well-Known Member

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    I have several Ap 'Tsuma gaki', they are one of my favorite trees. I have had them planted in several different places and have found that the tree can tollerat full sun in the PNW. I have also seen one at Buchholz Nursery which is planted in the ground in full sun and that tree is at least 16' tall and 20' wide.
    In my case I have found I like the coloring best if the Tsuma gaki has plenty of shade, there it has a nice lime green color and does not turn red as soon. . In full sun I have found that the leaves turn red sooner in summer and tend to fall off before autumn sometimes leaving more dead wood.
    It is a great small tree which can be pruned easily to create a "bonsai" look.
     
  20. winterhaven

    winterhaven Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    16 feet?! Good golly! Vertrees III estimates more like nine feet. Thank goodness you followed up with the pruned easily part. And as I recall it's a slow grower. That should help.

    Thank you for the helpful information re: sun/shade exposure. I've now changed my mind again about where it should go. After the first location I've been dragging it from place to place in its pot, so at least I haven't been digging up the poor thing each time. I think this one will just have to stay in that pot until I'm absolutely sure about the location.
     
  21. nelran

    nelran Active Member

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    Last year I was dissapointed with this cultivar. The leaves, color, shape and size weren't characteristic of 'Tsuma Gaki'. Also it didn't performed well and lost several branches due die back. Then, last fall I decided to repot, replace all the soil, and planted in a open and shallow cedar container... and wait. Finally, it started to look like the real cultivar.
    First 2 pics were Spring 2008, rest taken today at night.
     

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  22. amazingmaples

    amazingmaples Well-Known Member

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    I am far from a an expert but from what I see in the photos nelran is that you do not have a very good graft of a Tsuma gaki. If you look in Vertree's book at the photo, you will see how they look when they are correct. I feel for you because I bought several trees from Jheter on ebay and one was a Tsuma gaki which was even further from the truth than yours. I will post some photos of a couple different Tsuma gaki which came from several different growers. This photo is from a Tsuma gaki from Iseli Nursery.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 7, 2010
  23. nelran

    nelran Active Member

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    Well Amazingmaples, maybe you're right. I can tell you that I got this cultivar from a reputable (and trusted) nursery in WA; that also provided me almost 70% of my maple collection. I think that the difference with the typical leaves is due to the fact that the actual leaves (shown in the pictures) are still tender, not full mature leaves as shown in your picture, maybe I'm wrong but I keep my hope up. But that's nothing new with this cultivar. We already had a previous discussion in this forum some time ago, about its particular "behavior". Some other collectors have had hard time with 'Tsuma Gaki', too. You can see the post here: What's up with Tsuma Gaki? with some pictures of the same tree.
    That's why I decided to repot it. I want to monitor how it will perform this year, with different soil mix (more open and breathable), using a shallow cedar container, and keeping an regular watering schedule. What I discovered when I transplanted it, was the soil was compact and heavy (keeping too much moisture, almost waterlogged). Also the original pot was taller than wider, contributing to water retention and the lack of proper "air exchange" in the root zone. The root ball didn't look bad (it didn't show new grow either). I can say that it seem stunted. I want to see if these factors were part of the problem, but just time will tell.

    Nelran
     
  24. amazingmaples

    amazingmaples Well-Known Member

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    Nelran

    I am far from an expert to know a cultivar exactly but what I see in your photos is a tree far from what it should look like. One of the phases I have heard is, a good nursery has a big burn pile, in that there is always failure with nature. Tsuma gaki is an outstanding tree. It is well worth your while to get yourself a high quality tree. If the place you mention in WA is Eastfork, you picked a great source for trees. I have done a fair amount of shopping around for quality trees found there are only a few I trust. One of my local growers of conifers Wells Nursery in Mount Vernon, WA told me that there is an art to finding the right piece of scion wood for a good graft. I do not graft trees but I have seen very bad coloring, disformation and completely wrong trees from some of the cheap mass producing nurseries. Even from the great nurseries I see one cultivar stand out from similar. My Tsuma gaki are just starting to leaf out so in a week or so I will get some photos of them, I have about 8 of them with a couple 6 to 7 feet tall.
     
  25. mattlwfowler

    mattlwfowler Active Member Maple Society

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    Quite a few tsuma gaki sold in the US are actually a form of tsuma beni. I have one of these mislabeled trees and it is coming from more reputable sources as well as the less reputable ones. Jim has elaborated on these trees for me so I'll pass my modest understanding of it on since you guys seem interested. Maybe this is not new to some of you folks, but maybe it will shed some light on some of the confusion with these types.

    There are at least three forms of tsuma beni out there, but the one commonly sold is the form that looks similar to tsuma gaki (could be the form that you have nelran). This form looks similar to tsuma gaki in the spring, but I think it has a stronger pubescence on the leaves (It has been a couple of years since we had our Iseli tsuma gaki so my memory is a bit fuzzy on just how much pubescence it has). This tsuma beni looses its reddish coloring on the tips and turns a shiny green for the summer. Growth during the summer is rare for us in my area, making it a fairly slow grower. My "tsuma gaki" goes green and stays green until fall, so I think it is actually this form of tsuma beni. There are two other forms that are only found in rare collections to my knowledge, and they are shown in the tsuma beni thread by Jim I believe.

    I think Iseli has the real tsuma gaki. I remember the spring colors being a bit more vibrant (perhaps due to the lack of heavy pubescence). The bigger difference for me is how the color develops when it is given some sun. Orange hues start to filter into the green summer foliage in lighted conditions. It seems like there can be some white to yellow tones in the center of the leaf. It gives the impression that it is burning up, but I think it is just the nature of that tree in certain conditions.

    Maybe I haven't butchered the description up too badly.
     

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