Acer palmatum 'Geisha Gone Wild'

Discussion in 'Acer palmatum cultivars (photos)' started by benishien, Apr 8, 2008.

  1. benishien

    benishien Active Member Maple Society

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    Anyone growing this tree? I do not know if it is a new cultivar or if talon is just joking with the name.
     

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  2. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: Geisha Gone Wild

    I was looking carefully at my geisha this evening (plant, not lady!) because of its
    breathtaking first leaves of cerise pink and then I saw your post. Geisha has always
    been 1 of my favorites but I was unaware of the cultivar Geisha Gone Wild until you
    brought this up for which I thank you. I went to Sam's eastfork nursery link and read
    what she said about GGW and would have bought 1 from her but she is sadly sold out.
    She said Talon brought it in from Australia. I love your 3rd pic from the right.
    Thanks for the topic and the heads up!
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2008
  3. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Geisha Gone Wild

    I would have sweared it was Shirazz

    Gomero
     
  4. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Geisha Gone Wild

    I had the same reaction.
     
  5. paxi

    paxi Active Member

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    Re: Geisha Gone Wild

    Check out sam's picture on the website:

    http://www.eastforknursery.com/images/Geisha.jpg

    I did a double take when I saw that "green contorted" leaf! Didn't see anything like it in the geisha photo gallery however so I'm not sure how consistent a characteristic it is.
     
  6. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Geisha Gone Wild

    Emery ,Gomero i not found again ,this cultivar in Europe you know the name of nursery that have Geisha in stock?
     
  7. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Geisha Gone Wild

    Alex, I have not seen Geisha proposed in Europe. I have a tiny one from the USA.

    Gomero
     
  8. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Geisha Gone Wild

    ah Gomero ,i have think that you received this maple by CECE Choteaux ,because have this maple in web list,but not send me one this winter ..
    probable this maple not have patent for Europe again?
     
  9. Galt

    Galt Active Member

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    Re: Geisha Gone Wild

    I guess now we can see more clearly the heritage of Geisha, some implied background about its instability, and get some insight in to some other recently introduced plants that have similar characteristics. I got the impression that GGW sport was selected by Talon from some of his Geisha plants that had great tendencies to sport, especially in new or vigorous growth--not brought in from Australia, but maybe the story has changed from what I first read.

    I would bet that the GGW sport will not be long lived characteristically, but who knows. Given the vigor in the plant pictured above, it will be interesting to see what it does when it settles down a little or a lot. The photos give an impression of an out-of-control rate of growth---maybe that is the GONE WILD part.

    Very pretty and it looks like a pleasure to own....maybe not at the prices it was selling for though. I will enjoy yours for now!
     
  10. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Geisha Gone Wild

    Galt which cultivar are similar to Geisha?
     
  11. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Re: Geisha Gone Wild

    The link below may help.

    Acer palmatum 'Shirazz'

    I believe the omission in regards to Duncan
    & Davies nursery in New Zealand becomes
    rather important for this Maple as to who the
    originating wholesale source nursery is. No
    information listed so far as to who Gwen is
    which for me would provide more insight
    into who actually grew the Maple and to
    whom originally selected this Maple out
    and further answer how did this Maple
    come about either as a likely branch sport
    or did it come about as a seedling. The
    part that would interest me the most is to
    know is if it did come about from seed,
    what did the other seedlings look like?

    I was of the belief that Geisha is a Fu
    variegate with an occasional color
    variegated leaf from the plants I've seen,
    whereas Shirazz so far is not purported
    to be a Fu variegate but is clearly a color
    leaf variegated Maple by the above photo.

    Years ago a branch sport from Waka momiji
    variegated held true when grafted onto a select
    red seedling rootstock. When the same scions
    from that same sport were grafted onto certain
    green seedling rootstocks the resultant growth
    could indeed be considered wild as the leaves
    grew much larger in size with more nodal, stem
    elongation than the red seedling counterpart
    progeny did with much smaller sized leaves
    and rather short length or distance between
    the nodes. As far as I know and I have been
    out of the "inner loop" for a while, neither
    form had been named per say as the plants
    were felt to be experimental by those few
    people that had them but if the Shirazz and
    the Geisha Gone Wild do have different
    colored rootstock parentage as grafted plants,
    then no matter how similar they may be in
    appearance they can qualify as having two
    different names for cultivar status.

    The problem I have with one name that leads
    to a potential problem is that neither the Shirazz
    Maple and the proposed Geisha Gone Wild
    appear to be from the same line of variegated
    Maples as the Japanese form of Geisha. Much
    like calling a new plant 'Bloodgood improved'
    when the new Maple did not come about from
    a seedling of or a branch sport from a Bloodgood
    at all.

    Jim
     
  12. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: Geisha Gone Wild

    Jim, fascinating post about the Waka momiji different growth on red and green
    rootstock. I've often wondered what effect the rootstock has on the scion growth
    characteristics. It must be significant as with Waka. Any other examples you know
    of and any thoughts about why the Waka leaf size and internodal spacing differences
    on red vs green rootstock.
    Thanks, Jim, for the info.
     
  13. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Geisha Gone Wild

    tanks Jim for your complete post.alex
     
  14. Galt

    Galt Active Member

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    Re: Geisha Gone Wild

    Alex,

    I was not actually stating (although I was not clear) that I have seen other maples that closely resemble Geisha, but if we group Shirazz and GGW together with it, we have something to work with. Because of the marginal variegation on the latter two plants I would have proposed a maple with similar characteristics but because we see so few with and pink or red the parentage might likely have needed to come from a strongly red or pink form of Matsugae or Roseomagrinatum. I had not considered Waka momiji variegated, which is strongly pink in it variegation, and it and forms of it are much more common. Combine that with the fact that Geisha on green rootstock can produce leaves of the Waka sort, things make more since. There are also some photos now of Shirazz showing Fu-type variegation or green-spotted variegation on a pink leaf like Geisha. These leaves are showing up alongside the typical leaves on the same plant.
     
  15. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Geisha Gone Wild

    grazie Galt !!
     
  16. benishien

    benishien Active Member Maple Society

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    Re: Geisha Gone Wild

    I checked the rootstock and it is green barked as Galt was taking about grafting "Geisha on green rootstock can produce leaves of the Waka sort" maybe true in this case. I am very interested in this rootstock fact and I will graft some scion on some red rootstock this sumer to see what happens. Though Talon could help us out allot by giving more info on the tree. It is a nice tree though. It is allot farther along than the last picture and I will post a new one soon. The lighting has to be right to pick up the features. It has a fine hair all over it that is picking up the flash to much and making it difficult to photograph as you can see below. It is cloudy today but I will try and get a photo with out a flash. Every moment counts in Identification and in patronage so maybe it will help to see it's new leaves.
     

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  17. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Re: Geisha Gone Wild

    If we look at the photo from this web site
    we can see that this Shirazz Maple has some
    stability issues. Just click on the thumbnail
    photo to see the larger sized photo.

    Dayton Nursery - Acer palmatum 'Shirazz'

    It is more common for today's growers and
    collectors to want to graft limb sports as
    soon as they were seen. The issue I have
    is in most cases the sports were not proven
    to be true by the seed selected and grown
    on from those sports.

    If a certain someone did take wood from
    the reverting growth and grafted it onto a
    rootstock and the reddish colored new
    growth held then the new plant can be
    called by a different name than the plant
    that produced the chimeral limb sport.

    The problem is whose story do we want to
    believe as to who the originating nursery
    was for Geisha. It is not out of bounds for
    a plant to have originated from Japan later
    be sent or have wood sent to another country
    and then have a newly put together plant sent
    back to the originating country, completely
    unknown to most of the people in that country.
    In other words a person can make the claim that
    a Maple originated in New Zealand when in fact
    the Maple originated in Japan and was later sent
    back to Japan and others just did not know it or
    were not told of it.

    Jim
     
  18. M. D. Vaden

    M. D. Vaden Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: Geisha Gone Wild

    Interesting.

    At first when I saw the topic title, I thought it might be about an Azalea.

    I bought an Azalea quite a few years ago tagged "Geisha".

    It was the blossoms that were two colors - like streaks.
     
  19. yweride

    yweride Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: Geisha Gone Wild

    Geisha Gone Wild is a sport from Geisha, which is a very unstable plant. It is identical to Shirazz as far as i can tell, but has no patent.

    Geisha was from Duncan and Davies (now no longer in bussiness) in NZ, and was according to Peter Gregory, a cross between palmatum and circinatum. Geisha is very weak and unstable, Geisha Gone Wild so far is strong and stable.
     
  20. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Geisha Gone Wild

    very interesting informations ! tank you!
     
  21. Cirque

    Cirque Active Member

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    Re: Geisha Gone Wild

    Here are a couple pics of Geisha Gone Wild that I recent purchased from Sam at East Fork Nursery. A very nice small tree that she sent me. After watching Shiraz in a number of different nurseries this year, the GGW which I have does look quite a bit different than Shiraz. Who knows. All I know is that this is a really beautiful tree that will be fun to watch grow. Thanks again Sam for sending me such a fine specimen.

    Cirque
     

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  22. Cirque

    Cirque Active Member

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    Re: Geisha Gone Wild

    Here's some updated pics of GGW. Very nice Fall show. Now it does look
    like 'Shiraz'. Be fun to watch over the next few years.

    Regards
    Cirque
     

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  23. winterhaven

    winterhaven Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Geisha Gone Wild

    This is my first Spring with GGW and I've been really enjoying the contrast of the pink against the green bark.

    Edit: 4/27/10 added photos #2,3
     

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    Last edited: Apr 27, 2010
  24. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    It seems like a good fit to move this thread into the photo gallery, as there was no existing gallery thread for GGW.

    It is interesting to note that in the 4th ed. of Japanese Maples Peter Gregory says this cultivar was a seedling of 'Geisha', while much of the discussion above speculates it may have been a branch sport. I wonder which is the true origin?
     
  25. amazingmaples

    amazingmaples Well-Known Member

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    Nice GGW winterhaven, see what can be found behind my garage.

    I have not read the 4th edition but that is funny that the rumor says one thng and the books says another thing. I can only laugh at this whole story. You would think the author would have the correct story, if it really mattered. As a collector who does not graft, the origins are not imposrtant but the fact is Geisha Gone Wild is an outstanding tree which will impress just about everyone gor its vivid colors.

    PS I know the story of the tree and laugh again
     

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