Acer palmatum f. atropurpureum

Discussion in 'Acer palmatum cultivars (photos)' started by Elmore, Jan 31, 2004.

  1. Elmore

    Elmore Active Member 10 Years

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    Here are some pictures of a red leaf Japanese Maple, Acer palmatum f. atropurpureum. A tree of seedling origin with predominantly red leaves. I took these pictures yesterday, 1-30-04. This tree is one of the largest that I have seen. It is located in Arab, Alabama and is probably over 25' tall and at least 30' wide. Yes, I do like the multiple trunk configuration.
     

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  2. Elmore

    Elmore Active Member 10 Years

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    Cave Hill atropurpureums

    Here are two nice Japanese Maples, Acer palmatum f. atropurpureum. I caught up with these at Cave Hill National Cemetery in Louisville, KY in October 2002.
     

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  3. industrial

    industrial Active Member

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    Here's a close up from my tree
     

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  4. industrial

    industrial Active Member

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    And here's my full tree
     

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  5. Elmore

    Elmore Active Member 10 Years

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    Dwarf and Semi-dwarf A. p. f. atropurpureum

    Here are some atropurureums that I have been growing for about 7 years. These trees are the ones in the 3g orange containers. I grew them from seed off a linearilobum. One is only about 8" tall and the one next to it is about 14" tall. Their fellow seedlings, located behind them are about 5-6' tall. If moved up to a larger container in a timely fasion or planted in the landscape they would be larger I'm sure but not so sure with the dwarf and semi-dwarf plants. All are the same age,from the same seed lot and have been treated the same. And yes, the leafless tree in the orange container to the right is another from this lot but unfotunately it is no longer with us.
     

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  6. Lois Bloom

    Lois Bloom Member

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    My young tree may or may not be atropurpureum; it seems to me that the leaves are smaller and not so finely dissected as those pictured on this Thread; the leaves also seem to be more 'purple' or in any event much darker. The tree needs to be moved, which will happen on Monday, and so I have trimmed the trunk branches in anticipation. I would very much appreciate opinions on whether it is or is not atropurpureum. Thank you!
     

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  7. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Lois, An atropurpureum type, would guess likely a seedling. A lot of variation among seedlings so many have been chosen as named cultivars. Atropurpureums are basically purple - red leaved forms of A. palmatum is my understanding.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2007
  8. mattlwfowler

    mattlwfowler Active Member Maple Society

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    The cultivar distinction 'Atropurpureum' would imply that the plant is a clone of the original plant. There are many seedlings with equal or better color to the original, therefore it is common to label them all as Acer palmatum form atropurpureum, which is as chimera said a red leafed palmate leafed form of Acer palmatum. The "superior" clones such as 'bloodgood' are also a part of the atropurpureum group.
     
  9. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    One in Tacoma, WA (USDA 8) measured 30' x 6'11" x 49' in 1990. Another, in nearby Lakewald Gardens (see their web site) was 39' x 4'9" x 45' in 1993.
     
  10. Lois Bloom

    Lois Bloom Member

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  11. pensylvaticum

    pensylvaticum Active Member

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    Atropurpureum was originally a British clone taken from a natural form of A.palmatum ssp.palmatum which is A.palmatum ssp. palmatum f.atropurpureum.
    These are two different plants. Atropurpureum form of the species is different from cultivar atropurpureum as it is a natural varient form of A.palmatum, as is A.palmatum f. dissectum. According to international nomenclture is a subspecies form of A.palmatum.
    Confusion and dilutusion is exasorbated by the number of red cultivars which came from this form including bloodgood, and Italian red which is a smaller form of Bloodgood, but is to simular to be distinguisable which is examplifies the problem with red palmate and red cultivars, actual subspecies forms, hybrids and the use of cultivar status, and of course witchesbrooms inc. Twombleys Red Sentinal.
    To be a cultivar it should have very distinct characteristics which distinguish it from ALL others and a period of not less than 3-5 years of observation to make sure variations are stable before registering according to international nomenclature rules.
    This term really should not be used any further as it is so diluted, and now meaningless a description because it has become a vage descripion of all red maples and cultivars.
    However, please note this still a correct applicable name to the form A.palmatum subspecies. palmatum form atropurpureum, but all must be included (A.palmatum ssp. palmatum f. artropurpureum)to be accurate under international nomenclature otherwise is an illegitimate name.
     
  12. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    >Atropurpureum was originally a British clone<

    Third edition of Vertrees, Japanese Maples follows Van Gelderen, Maples for Gardens who says

    "'Atropurpureum' of Dutch or German origin is usually grown from cuttings or grafted from a superior clone selected by Constant Wattez, Netherlands, before 1910"

    Jacobson, North American Landscape Trees says under his entry for A. palmatum f. atropurpureum ("a group name applicable to any seedling or cultivar with markedly reddish or purplish leaves") that "Redleaf Japanese maples were cultivated in Europe in 1857, and were introduced to the U.S. by Thomas Hogg sometime between 1862 and 1875" so redleaf Japanese maples were being grown in western gardens before the Wattez introduction. When was A. palmatum f. atropupureum (van Houtte) Schwer. published? If it precedes the listing of the Wattez introduction then it would seem that shouldn't have been called A. palmatum 'Atropurpureum' from the start.

    "The true clonal cultivar [A. palmatum 'Atropurpureum' Wattez] needs a new name, in fact, but renaming would cause confusion" (Van Gelderen)
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2008
  13. pensylvaticum

    pensylvaticum Active Member

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    There has been much debate of the origins. There are too many to count-Dirr, DeJong, Gelderen, Vertrees etc, and most of whom have a varient of the same position which tries to distingish them from the other and all whom claim they are correct.The important issues are:
    A. palmatum ssp. palmatum f.artopurpureum a natural varient of A.palmatum which was open pollinated in a natural environment. A natural hybridisation, and there are also hybrids forms of other Acers and other species and this is a natural occurance.
    Quotes does not distinguish cultivar which is unique. This does not apply under a general term from any red variation or natural varient. International nomenclature which distinguishes cultivar from A.palmatum ssp.palmatum f.atropurpureum is according to international nomenclture rules and the rules preporting to creation of new cultivar.
    Distinguishing purpureum as cultivar to which Bloodgood a new cultivar is derived from this original cultivar, which was derived or varient of A.palmatum ssp. palmatum f.altropurpureum, therefore Altropurpureum the cultivar and f.atropurpureum the form of A. palmatum ssp.palmatum are seperate. A.palmatum ssp palmatum f atropurpureum to which the original cultivar is derived was formed by natural open polination by nearby Acer species, selected or forced polination by botanists, or person as many plants are still cross polinated either naturally or by persons or Botanists.Eg Plant reserch at University of Minnesota were able to sucessfully cross A.cissifolium and A.henri, or it is thought that A. palmatum Higasiyama, may be a cross between A.palmatum and A.shirisawan.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2008

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