Please see following posts. This would seem to be Acer palmatum........? Planted in November 2000, this Acer seems to be an upright grower. The leaves have a curious curled edge. In autumn it turns from green to golden yellow.It is growing in dappled shade.
Fantastic cultivar. I never read about if before, I like the colors and form. Very nice Luddite. Nelson
Wow that's a splendid plant Luddite. Doesn't resemble the lack luster description in Maples of the World at all
Luddite, nice photos and tree, also growing one purchased as 'Crippsii' here, believe it came from Duncan and Davies . It's about 4 m. high {12' H}, larger than the description of 'Crippsii' in "Maples of the World''. Actually mine seems to match the description given by Vertrees and van Gelderen of 'Okushimo'. Hillier mentions 'Crippsii' as having bronze-red leaves finely cut into grasslike segments and a plant of weak constitution, not like the plant growing here.
Hi chimera, when we bought this tree and got it home, we read up about it to see how big it would grow. In Hilliers the description was as you say, it was not in our edition of Vertree. So, I wrote a letter to the growers.... a New Zealand company. (Many of the lovely Acers found in garden centers in Britain come from this grower, they are always very strong,healthy and of a good shape). A reply came back assuring me that it was correctly named, they enclosed a photocopy from "Maples for Gardens" by the van Gelderens.The picture and description fitted our plant. Since then we have seen Acer p Crippsii growing in Hilliers excellent garden in Hampshire. A tiny, young specimen.... which looked nothing like our tree!!!! Who do you believe?! Buying accurately named varieties can be a bit of a lottery. Futher reading it certainly looks as if you are right. Acer p.Okushimo seems to fit this plant. Now how do I delete this whole thread... before it causes more confusion? Daniel HELP!
Hi luddite, your post seems quite informative, helpful, and interesting to me , thank you. It seems to confirm that our trees likely both came from the same grower, Duncan and Davies in New Zealand. I have been very happy with their trees, but not sure if they are still in business. Esveld lists 'Crippsii' here http://www.esveld.nl/htmldiaen/a/acpcri.htm and 'Okushimo' here http://www.esveld.nl/htmldiaen/a/acpoku.htm so not sure what to think ? Vertrees mentions 'Crispa' as a name that has been used for 'Okushimo'.
Thanks chimera. I had forgotten the name of the New Zealand grower. Never imagined that in Canada you might have also got your tree from N.Z. Probably from the same company! I assumed that Duncan and Davies was local to you...till I googled it! I have added a correction at the start of this thread.
Don't delete the thread. We can always have the title changed later when we are more certain what this Maple is. There are several titles already with wrongly named plants in them. The interesting scenario should to agree on what those plants should be correctly named but we have some problems to overcome that we may not get complete agreement on them. A lot depends on who is selling what Maple and by what name they are calling it. In this case there may very well be two different Maples with the same name or it may appear they have the same name but a little change in the spelling may be applied here in that one Maple may be Crippsii and the other unrelated Maple may have been around in a couple of nursery circles as being called Crispsi as a made up example. I believe Esveld has the right Maple for Crippsii which looks very much like an Okushimo but should be a smaller growing plant that is less upright and more spreading in its growth than Okushimo. Remember some of these related Maples have 7 lobes and some named forms have only 5 lobes. How about posting a photo or two of the Hillier Maple or send me a private message whereby I can see the photos, as I may know the name of it and which nursery source it may have come from originally. People do not always equate in terms that Hillier and others may have gotten some of their plants from US sources and vice versa. I know Don Kleim and Harold Hillier shipped plants back and forth, sometimes having Fred Bergman of Raraflora nursery be the go between (intermediate) person, in years past. Jim
Thank you Jim for taking the time to look at this thread, and to offer to try and solve the confusion over the name Crippsii. We have been back to Hilliers since we first saw their Crippsii, (it was several years ago) but it was no longer in the spot where we had seen it originally, so no pic possible! The autumn colour is now at its best for this acer, so inspite of the name issue, thought I would add another pic. I will take more pics of the fresh leaves next year.This acer must be at least 8ft tall already.
What do you remember of the Hillier plant? I am aware of the Maple that they had as far back in the late 20's. Yes indeed the Hillier Maple is not the same plant as the one being called Crippsii today. Aside from the growth habits and overall sizes of the Hillier garden tree and yours, what other differences do you recall from the Hillier Maple and the very nice plant you have? How many lobes does yours have and how many lobes did the Hillier Maple have as an example? I recall it is written in the Japanese Maples books that Okushimo has lobes in 7's. How many lobes are there on a typical leaf instead - 5 is the answer. When does an Okushimo yield more than 5 lobes, which flush of growth and when will we see some leaves with 7 lobes? This is just to jog your memory as I know how many lobes the Hillier Maple had. Did the Hillier Maple have leaves with different shapes on the tree? Was the Summer new growth the same size and shape as the Spring growth was and was the late Summer/ early Fall new growth the same as the Spring growth, the same as the Summer growth or did the late new growth appear in different shapes than either with larger sized leaves on a dwarf form (yatsubusa) plant? Could it be that the Maple that resided in the garden was called Crippsii at one time and was later called something different? Or could it be that the newer Maple was given the Crippsii name not knowing that the name already existed for another Maple? Here is what someone will have to work out sometime. If the Esveld Maple came from Duncan & Davies, where did the Duncan & Davies Maple come from? It is not out of bounds, indeed possible that wood taken from the Hillier Maple could have yielded what is now being called Crippsii but I think some provenance of the new plant must be documented for the apparent new generation plant to have some substance to it. Why, because some of us know that the Hillier Maple can be documented back to the late 20's and the olden day plant and the more recent version plant of the same name are not the same Maple. Jim
Hilliers' manual mentions A.p. 'Crippsii' as receiving an "Award of Merit" from the R.H.S. in 1903. Makes one wonder if it may have originated from or been named by Thomas Cripps and Sons of Tunbridge Wells in the 1800s.
I was just going on memory, not using a book or a reference to guide me with dates. However, Crippsii could very well have been someone else's plant and cited by the Maples of the World book as having been attributed to Hillier and Sons by virtue of them being the first to offer their Maple for resale, via a nursery catalog of which the catalog and the date of it can be documented. The point with the current Crippsii Maple in this thread is that it seems to have already been verified by a world renown nursery by the name Crippsii. The inherent dilemma is that apparently Luddite has seen the old Hiller Maple and feels his Maple is not the same as the old Maple he saw in a garden setting. From his photos of his rather choice plant I am more than inclined to agree with him that his Maple and the old Hillier Maple are not the same plant. The real conundrum is what do we do with the variant forms of an already named Maple? Do we call the Nigrum form of Shojo shidare by another name or do we continue on and reference the newer, variant, form by the old and more widely known name - Shojo shidare? The people I hung around with in Maples would still call the Nigrum form of Shojo shidare - Shojo shidare but would make it a point of telling people it is not the older Shojo form of that particular Maple. Whereas someone else might want to give the Nigrum form a new name and that I cannot go along with, unless it was agreed upon by committee, rather than by one person that wants to give the Maple a new name just to sell it and command a higher price for it due to the novelty of it. I know of instances whereby wood taken from a specimen could yield grafted offspring not exactly like the parent plant was. It happens, so wood taken from a Hillier Maple could have led to a selected plant that seemed different to them but not different enough for them to give it a whole new name. Jim
Really not sure what to think here, suppose even Hilliers' plant could have been mislabeled, but unlikely. Would be interesting to see the RHS description, if there is one, of the A.M. 'Crippsii'. Haven't found one on the RHS website. Hmmm, wonder if any Maple Society members would have more information available to them.
maybe is one Shisihi gashira?in Italy one maples specialist nursery (Floricoltura Fessia no web site sorry)named Shishi Gashira ,or also named Crippisi;this is + o- write in "maples for the garden" too...
