I have been excited about japanese maples for several years. In that time I have bought a coupe thousand trees. Of the trees I have purchased, I have found there are varieties that have reoccuring issues. I thought it would be helpful information for all if there was a thread which lists trees with issues and gave a brief discribed of the difficulties with these cultivars. Some of the main issues with these trees can be; growth habit, reversion, branch loss and or worst death. More specifics of the causes and cures can be discused on the thread about the listed tree. This thread is more for the buyer who just wants to know what is a risky tree to buy. I do hope everyone can provide us with a little history of their experinces with 'Buyer Beware' trees.
Here in Oregon, I have trouble with my corallinum, especially when we get alot of spring rain. This year, both of my corallinum started out looking great, but have lost 70% of their leaves by now, due to mold and other moisture issues. I placed one in the shade and the other in full sun to see if this helped, but to no avail. Also, I have bought 3 youngRed Spiders over the past 2 years. All 3 have died within 3 weeks of purchase. They look great one day, and the next day, they die, and all the leaves dry out while still attached to the stem. I asked the nursery if they have ha complaints from other customers, but they claim that no one else has mentioned any troubles with Red Spider.
A case by case basis is probably best for determining which cultivars are more or less likely to do well for us. Some cultivars have a history of just not lasting long for most people. I've touched a little on this with Filigree and Silver Lace. Beni shidare variegated as an example is very lucky to live for 15 years for most people. Many of the reticulated Maples such as Shigitatsu sawa, either the light or dark forms, have historically been a real difficult plant to sustain for long periods of time. I know of one grower that feels fortunate that his in ground plants can live up to 15 years, perhaps 7-10 years old when first planted in the ground. Many of the unusual bark Maples just do not live long. Even Ibo nishiki and the choice Pine bark Arakawa sho on their own roots can be troublesome plants to sustain in arid and windy areas. Even when permanently grown as container plants under 50% shade cloth, warm afternoon winds can really chew these Maples up. Juvenile plants seem to do well but when these Maples get around 15 years old they start to really decline in their overall growth rate with old wood being decimated rapdily and little new growth wood to replace the loss of the old wood - does this on their own naturally. Then if we add in V. alboatrum, internal Pseudomonas and external Tight Bark we can see some individual plants never make it up to 10 years old for a lot of people and this has been going on for over 50 years. Any more Maples that are free, no visible signs, of fungal and bacterial diseases is what we should strive to select for our collection and landscape plants. I've been a proponent for some time about the use of standardized rootstocks, rather than any old green or red seedling. Specialized rootstocks at one time were very important to help sustain these plants over time and the nurseries that learned this or were aware of it are the ones most apt to grow and sell Maples that can live longer as a landscape tree. This is one of the reasons why I want to see stock plants and adult plants when I visit a wholesale nursery. I want to know which of their Maples have done well for them over time and of course learn which Maples have not done well for them. Seeing juvenile trees (7-12 year olds) allover the place does not excite me that much but seeing 20 year olds on the nursery premises will. For a lot of the new named Maples there aren't any 20 years olds yet and sometimes there is a reason for this other than the Maple is too new to be that age. There are a few Maples that are pretty plants when young and popular now with newbies and relative beginners in Maples that just will not make it up to 20 years of age for most people. In a few years we will be able to read several horror stories about them and much of it will be due to fungal and bacterial diseases already in the plant. Some areas will not have the decimation of wood as soon as other areas will but as a caution in cooler areas we may not see the incidence of Tight Bark as soon as warmer areas will and the difference maker is simply this, in warm climates we have some time to do something about it but in cooler areas once the symptoms are seen it will be too late to try to help the plant. In other words the sudden loss potential is greater in a cooler climate. A lot of adult trees over the years have died out not from Verticillium wilt as was feared but from apical and lateral shoot tip dieback and subsequent stress enhanced branch wilt that if not pruned out can kill a tree in a cooler climate in two years or less. We have up to three years to try to save the tree in a warmer climate as MJH will see and has already learned being in Medford or J.D. Vertrees in Roseburg compared to the same trees grown in cooler and wetter areas of Oregon in which water mold fungi in the ground and in potting soils is a problem until Summer. Also, in cooler areas of Oregon, the root weevil dilemma becomes even more of an issue. Combine this insect with the prevalent Phytophthora water mold fungi and we have a brimming recipe for disaster with Verticillium alboatrum already in the plant. Sometimes it is a wondrous thing how the plant manages to live at all in spite of us. Combine all of the above with substandard rootstocks that are highly susceptible to Pseudomonas infection and double the incidence problem from using Pseudomonas infected scion wood we have a plant that almost certainly is not going to live long [ask arboretums and botanical gardens in the Pacific Northwest what has happened to their palmatum type Maples over the years that were there in the 80's and 90's that are not there now] - what I refer to a nursery selling a guaranteed dead plant. Jim
Great post. I view non-standard (random seed grown) root stock as the #1 issue in the grafted maple business. Even putting aside health issues, how can a vigorous plant attain large size on a weak and small-growing root stock, or a dwarf retain characteristics if the understock is fast growing and busy pumping energy into it? As for pseudomonas infected stock, indeed these are guaranteed dead. Many of the inexpensive liner plants seem to be of this ilk. As for problem children, I always tell people to avoid Sango kaku and favor instead the somewhat similar Eddisbury. I noticed many have problems with Taylor. But for sure any plant on infected root stock will have nothing but problems. -E
Number one tree on my list Kandy Kitchen - I have owned several and all have died. The last one had been in the ground in the same location for a few years when this spring it found its way to the burn pile. Winter Flame - it is another tree which I have had die more often. Johnnies Pink - I have had nothing but poor results with this tree. Corallinum - They live but seem to have issues keeping leaves on al of the plant. For a short time of the year, it looks great but most of the year it looks beat up. Shaina & Aratama - both of these trees can do great but them with show up with loads of dead wood, sometimes i have seen large sections of dead wood on the tree.
Did all of the trees originate from the same growing source? Herein is a problem issue for me as what I'd write in an online forum about a grower I know and what I may write or tell someone one on one in private may very well be two different things. How old were the plants that had problems? Then again all of these Maples have had issues over the years, although a couple of them have not been around long to be more authoritative about how widespread the problems have been for people. The other issue is that we cannot compare two and three year olds with five and seven year olds and older. As an example I've only had a two year grafted Johnnie's Pink since 2004, so in effect my tree is now roughly eight years old. An acceptable five gallon plant still but way too small for an acceptable fifteen gallon Maple. It is the right age to go into the ground and yes, there is an issue with Tight Bark, that is also in the rootstock this Maple was propagated onto. That is the fault of the grower, not so much the Maple itself but then again what I perceive as the parent plant from which this Maple came about from has a history of Tight Bark and an abundance of alboatrum in its system. So, as long as we keep this Maple in a vigorous growing state and not let it go stagnant in the ground we have a chance to see it get up to 20 years and more in age but with Tight Bark in the rootstock my tree will be quite lucky to last another seven years for me. My Japanese Sunrise from the same grower source is doing the same thing and also has Tight Bark in the rootstock. Corallinum depends on the source as descendant plants from Hillier and plants that came in from a nursery in New Zealand have held up well enough but when those plants were grafted onto substandard rootstock they have been short lived plants in a landscape. I am sorry to say that both Shaina and Aratama are loaded with Verticillium alboatrum and with any Tight Bark in the plants system also, along with any stress we have two very short lived trees for us. The only way to clean these plants up is to go back in and find a standardized rootstock for them. Emery, I agree that Eddisbury in Europe is a much better and longer living tree in a landscape than most Sango kaku are. The more adaptable and better growing Sango kaku around here is actually a selected seedling that is best left on its own roots but even then most people are going to graft it and without a clean feet source rootstock we have lessoned the number of years we will have this Maple. Jim
I have had problems with selections where leaves contain a lot of pink and/or white and little or no green. This lack of chlorophyll makes those plants somewhat weak and prone to catch all kind of diseases and be easy prey for pathogens. For these, when a branch greens out, I tend to keep it in order to better feed the roots. I admit that, sometimes, it is not pretty but the survival of the plant is at stake. The palmatums 'Beni kosode' and 'Taylor' are two that come to mind, but there are others. Gomero
I agree with Gomero about Beni kosode. I have heard some reputable growers are giving up with this plant. Does anyone have a "big" Beni kosode, say 10-12 ft tall? I find that Beni has lots of sudden twig die back (like Charlie finds with his witches brooms) and leaf browning/drop.
If I had a bit more time, space, and money I would have a "three strikes" rule meaning that if a plant from at least two different sources failed for me three times I would give up on it. As it stands I have a "two strikes" rule. Although no cultivar has technically met this criteria, there are some that are close. I know it's common, but acer shirasawanum aureum has been a losing battle for me. The red barks that I have had in st. louis (sango kaku, and beni kawa) are an excercise in winter dieback frustration. Although my second toyama nishiki seems to be doing fine, something about this cultivar just makes me nervous. My issues with ukigomo coloration are detailed in another thread. I would encouge, however, relative newcomers like myself to give a cultivar at least two shots: Orange Dream comes to mind - a spectacular failure the first go round, but the second time has produced one of my best trees.
I have realized that my perception and reality of maples has changed a great deal in the nearly 10 years I have been collecting. I can't say I have added a maple in the 3 years since our son has been born and I have spent my maple time just tending (and not very well in some stretches). It has been sparse, but a bit of watering and fertilizing and pruning, without blind desire for more plants has allowed me to step back and find out what having a collection of potted maples means and what direction I might take in the future. I have recently began a large and overdue repotting venture and in the spirit of this thread, I decided that I would start with the best, largest, healthiest and most prized maples and work my way down through the collection. It was funny to me that I was finally able to put some of the emotion aside and start grouping them....finally there was a group that formed a discard pile--those trees that are still living, but that I no longer wish to fight with--that are certain to die and not gracefully. It was no longer about quantity and names, but fine a way to make a little peace with the vast expanse of plants that had tormented me for a number of years...... So many of the trees that are reaching the 7 to 10 year old mark, potted all their lives, are shutting down a bit. They put out less and less growth each year and fail to recover from the heat and cold. Wood loss and tattered appearances rule the group. I have not pushed these maples in quite a few years now and it shows. Enough with the self-indulgence, Some of the strongest, oldest and most beautiful maples I have are, Kamagata, Oregon Butterfly, Shaina, Yuri hime, Ryuzu, Hupp's Dwarf, Wabito, Wou nishiki, Kiohime, and a few others......all the rest, well, they just aren't quite as pristine. I guess the moral of the story for me is that after a while, the beautiful strong-growing plants in the collection really come to mean something special. You get a little soured on trying new plants, and I have just decided to enjoy what I have for a while and continue to observe and learn. Thanks for the space to reflect a little......
Thank you for writing this. It helps me understand some of my own thoughts and consider the future of my own collection. I'll be repotting/root and branch pruning this season, and really cannot add anything anymore, just take care of what I have. Efforts need to be concentrated there, and realistically, too, especially for the container trees. Last year I took pruning more seriously, with good, beginning results. This year I hope to take that further. There are a couple of cultivars that I have tried to grow more than once that I will likely give up on, too.
Interesting posts. As I read them, I was also curious to see what region growers were from because (as always with gardening) what is growing poorly for one may be doing well for another. For example, my Johnny's Pink was growing so vigorously in a container that I decided to plant it in the ground. Plus, it wasn't that outstanding, colorwise, except early in the spring. So then that opens the "can of worms" question, do I really have Johnny's Pink? Another one mentioned above that for me is really vigorously is Corallinum. It has been in a container for four years now. I have a notation that it needs "good drainage" so there is another issue with longevity, siting of the tree. I have a couple I stuck in the ground that have been dying slowly in containers...Tsuma gaki I've had for 5 years in a container and it looks terrible each year, plus dies back some each year. Kurui jishi is like the shrinking maple. Although, now that I stuck it in the ground it's putting on all kinds of new growth...figures. So then think about it, we have the issue of substandard grafts, soil properties, pests and diseases, worldwide regional issues (I mean, look at these posts and where we are all living), cold/hot/dry winds/moist, rainy conditions. When you think about it, it's a miracle any survive to 20 years. And those that do may not even be the correctly named cultivars we think they are. Maybe we should look for a different tree:) Just kidding of course. Kay
All good points made here. I have had consistent problems with the coral bark maple group, particularly sango kaku (although I have seen at least a couple "sango kaku" that are clearly different, but all of them have shown psueomona problems). Circinatums have been problematic for me here in the southeast...pacific fire and monroe. Most witches brooms have had some problems for me. Particularly aratama and baby lace show die back after winter, but can grow very vigorously in the summer to recover. Red filigree lace can be difficult.
I have recently had some problems with Goshiki Shidare reverting back to a plain bronze green color. Also the ghost varieties have a hard time keeping any kind of a nice appearance after their initial spring flush. With the exception of Sister Ghost, which seems to look great all summer. I have also completely given up on Hanami Nishiki. Very problematic variety with serious die back issues. Baby Lace has done extremely well for me. I purchased my stock plant from Eastfork Nursery. Sam seems to have had trouble with it as well and I believe she no longer sells it. This variety MUST be grown more. I have some 2 year old Baby Lace trees that are 2ft tall with a dozen healthy branches. My 1 and 2 year olds seem to continually flush new growth all summer.
Baby lace is one of those that grows like wild during the summer, but sometimes fails to harden off for winter. I also suspect it has a tendency to outgrow it's root system...perhaps it diverts too much energy in growth buds while failing to put enough in the root system. The result is a rootstock that is more succeptable to root rot pathogens and winter injury. I think you can loosely apply this to other witches brooms in maples and other plants in general, but I'm no biologist.
There is something about many of the dwarfs which cause us misery. Tiny Tim is one I love but it seems to always have die back. This year I got a large Abigail Rose and a large Squitty which are very similar. The Squitty had issues growing this season while the Abigail Rose did great. I have also found that climate has a huge impact. I bought three 20 plus year old Shaina which came from one nursery. One of the three went to a friends house while it was still dormant. It was the biggest healthest looking. He lives in a little colder spot due to our little micro climates and sure enough his suffered sever dieback while the other two suffered very little which was somewhat expected due to the fact they had been dug out of their 20 year home. I guess it is hard to figure out most of the causes due to to many different factors for each location.
Fjellheim! Have had two, from different growers. After two years in the ground, both just dropped there leaves and died. I loved this one in my collection, but wary of giving it another try.
Dear Charles et all, Very useful and interesting aspect that you shared here. I have learned a lot from all of your posts and i would like to add one more small comment here that have been in my mind after reading your thread. I agreed that wellness of the trees are depend on where they came from but also how they have been taking care of. And i am looking forward to some ideas about the region where the trees are planted i.e. climate, temp., rain/sun, soil... I am from Virginia thus some of the trees that are growing fine here doesn't mean they are fine at Oregon/Washington state/Tennesse... So if you all can share more insights for the wellness of these JMs per state/region, I would greatly appreciated. Steve
Shaina is the only one I've lost for evidently no reason, and I suspect it's a witches' broom issue much like everyone else thinks. I have some "delicate" maples that, much to my delight, actually seem fairly hardy. Toyama nishiki, a tiny little shigitatsu-sawa, and my baby lace. The baby lace was one of the first ones I purchased- it's grafted onto a horribly tall rootstock so it's really an odd looking little plant, but it just keeps going.
I have seen very large Baby Lace in Oregon but I have seen where in no time the will just die. Many of the neew dwarf cultivars are best suited in a greenhouse. Any sever weather change can destroy them.
Charlie, Your baby lace is the best one I have ever seen. Is it still doing well. In fact you have the most beautiful maples ever. Really enjoyed visiting last October.
Thanks. Well it is alive and doing well but it sits under a large eave next to the house so it is very well protected from any elements. I did buy a large one this year but due to a mix up in shipping it was not put on my truck. Maybe I will see it in one of this next year's loads. I saw a really large Baby Lace in a 45gallon pot. it might come available this year. There are a few larger than it but not by much. You need to see my place this year. It us stuffed
I just have a little 3 year old Baby Lace. Your beautiful speciman encouraged me to try this little baby. Seeing your maples was defineatly the highlight of the 2012 Maple Society tour. Especially enjoyed meeting your wonderful parents. Hope to see you in North Carolina this year.
