Acer palmatum 'Beni shigitatsu sawa'

Discussion in 'Acer palmatum cultivars (photos)' started by Elmore, Feb 3, 2004.

  1. benishien

    benishien Active Member Maple Society

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    Re: Acer palmatum 'Aka shigitatsu sawa'

    It seems I am not the only one who loves this tree.
     

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  2. mattlwfowler

    mattlwfowler Active Member Maple Society

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    Re: Acer palmatum 'Aka shigitatsu sawa'

    This undulated lobe form remains my favorite among my lighter reticulated forms (over first ghost, shigitatsu sawa, and the other form of aka shigitatsu sawa that looks a bit more like beni shigitatsu sawa).
     

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  3. sasquatch

    sasquatch Active Member

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    Re: Acer palmatum 'Aka shigitatsu sawa'

    May 2009
     

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  4. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Note: I have changed the name of this thread from 'Aka shigitatsu sawa' to 'Beni shigitatsu sawa' (and left a redirect from the previous name) as this appears to be the recognised name at present. This is an especially confusing one as it seems several forms have been propogated under both these names over the years.
     
  5. cthenn

    cthenn Active Member

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    Taken 4/19/2010. Simply an outstanding cultivar.
     

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  6. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I have a second, 8 years old, Aka (or Beni) shigitatsu sawa which so far has been just like the descriptions given above in this thread. Today, while walking in the garden (temperatures already hitting 30°C!!) I noticed, in the new spurt of growth, a few completely red leaves which do not seem to fit and had not seen it before. Anybody has seen this behavior in your maples?

    Gomero
     

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  7. mattlwfowler

    mattlwfowler Active Member Maple Society

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    Yes but unfortunately it usually is a sign of a little die on the branches with that color. It looks like that branch has really slowed down on its growth and that is where I usually see it on my trees. Sometimes heavily shaded branches show it. Time will tell though.
     
  8. mapledia

    mapledia Active Member

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    Here's my 'Beni shigatatsu sawa' on April 23, 2010, but mine is a tiny thing, only two years old but performing well.
    mapledia
     

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  9. mattlwfowler

    mattlwfowler Active Member Maple Society

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    Hmm that doesn't look right for beni shigitatsu sawa for me. That one looks like the cream form of Peaches and cream. I'd keep my eye on that one.
     
  10. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Mattlwfowler,

    I am familiar with your explanation: In older trees, sometimes in a branch which has leafed out ok, leaves will turn red, fall and the branch will die. Here it is different, leaves leaf out bright red as shown in the close up picture in the right, and then slowly fade to the normal color as can be seen in the cluster to the right in the second picture. The branch does not die off.

    Gomero
     
  11. mattlwfowler

    mattlwfowler Active Member Maple Society

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    Oh I see what you are saying. I've seen that too, I just assumed it leafed out normal with the others then turned red.
     
  12. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I just took a look back into this thread after a long
    respite.

    There are a couple of Maples shown in the photos
    that are close to being the old Aka shigitatsu sawa.

    In reference to a comment you made, Gomero: a
    couple of photos taken one time may confuse us.
    Whereas a series of photos taken over the years may
    provide a better answer as to if people do have the old
    Aka or not. What I can say is that as the plant ages
    the rose coloring should become more distinctly red
    in color nearest the palm of the leaf. The problem for
    me is that I've seen lots of these so-called Aka in
    Oregon nurseries that showed some red when they
    were young and sometimes in age up to juvenile
    trees but the red just did not hold for any length of
    time during the growing season. The red being
    almost absent in nearing maturity and adult aged
    trees.

    Yes, mapledia, the Aka form can still be found around
    in Oregon from Bush, Wright and Baltzer descendant
    plants from the old Kleim collection Maple. I hand
    delivered some up to these people years ago.

    Just for the record there is a Shiro (white) form of
    this Maple as well and mapledia your second plant
    may just be it. Can be seen in the Spring as a white
    with red colored "fingernails", finger tips, as we used
    to call them. Your young plant is showing this trait.
    The white for me turns a cream color by mid Spring.
    Hope it holds up for you over time.

    By the way there are some good examples of the
    Beni form coloring in this thread.

    Gomero, sometimes grafted Beni and Aka shigitatsu
    sawa can throw out pretty much all red or rose pink
    colored vigorous tip growth but usually without the
    double notched lobes however.

    Jim
     
  13. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    After reviewing this thread I'm beginning to wonder if my Beni shigitatsu sawa is the real thing. I'm not seeing the wavy leaft margins on my plant.

    Can anyone tell me a source for the real McCoy??


    Thanks!
     
  14. mattlwfowler

    mattlwfowler Active Member Maple Society

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    I only see the strongly wavy margins on certain areas in my trees. Both the tips of vigorous spring shoots and vigorous summer shoot growth show minimal waviness. Or at least not to the degree that is shown on the first couple of leaf pairs to come out in spring and on older growth. The wavy tendency is also the strongest in the spring before the leaf opens fully, but some waviness should hang around in the summer.

    Below is a pic in spring after the salmon color faded and before the rose color started developing heavily near the midribs. Shown are some of the fairly vigorous spring shoots that exhibit the most undulation on the leaf margin. The tips of those same branches have little or no undulation and the leaves are almost half that size.

    The difficulty with getting the "real" McCoy is...which one is the "real" one. Two of my trees were labeled Aka shigitatsu sawa and one was labeled Peaches and cream (which has proven incorrect after a couple of years of close comparison). The question then becomes: Is mine the old form of Aka (or a reduced version of the old form), or is it one of a couple of different forms of Beni? I'm not sure that the forms of Beni show the degree of undulation that the Aka does, but I don't know because they are all mixed up and I'm confused.

    We have lumped the trees together because they are similar and translate the same to English. However, you could say one means a cool colored red and one means a warm colored red in Japanese, so this could be an oversight in translation by the "experts". Please note I am not making accusations or claiming that the names actually have different meanings, but I know that purple and lavender are not the same color, but could easily be lumped into the same name when being translated to a language that only has one name for the shades of purple.

    As far as where to find one with wavy margins, I would suggest looking for an Aka shigitatsu sawa. I would take a good long look at the tree before you buy it to be sure.
     

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  15. amazingmaples

    amazingmaples Well-Known Member

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    Here is photos of a tree labeled 'Aka shigitatsu sawa' which was selected out of a large collection as being one of the more impressive trees. I have several other aka shigitatsu sawa from other growers and they are much greener/amber than this tree. This tree is more stunning than others. It is a funny tree since the person it came from is one of the more vocal people about true identification. I personally not sure what to think other than it is a tree with wonderful color.
     

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  16. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    15th August 2020, lots of rain at last, the leaves have freshend up so quickly. My misting I carry out in the evenings in hot weather was of no use this year when temperatures were in the mid 30 C 's for many many days. It just evaporated so quickly.
    Some have not done so well and my Beni Shigitatsu Sawa is one of those. I must show this so people can see the effect a very hot dry Summer will do to this cultivar.
     

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  17. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    7th April 2021 and my first posting comes after the hardest Spring frost here in decades. But my Beni Shigitatsu sawa was not out in leaf compared to this time last year thankfully, so it should be fine.
    Beni Shigitatsu Sawa 182.JPG
     
  18. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    27th April 2021 and I'm so pleased my Beni Shigitatsu sawa has held off leafing out. It can be a bit delicate.
    Beni shigitatsu sawa 205.JPG
     
  19. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    16th May 2021 and it has taken some time to leaf out due to the exceptionally cold April, but it's here now and looking quite nice.
    Beni Shigitasu sawa 228.JPG
     
  20. Xi-feng

    Xi-feng Rising Contributor

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    Beni Shigitatsu Sawa on the left, Shigitatsu Sawa on the right in both pictures:

    20210604 Shigitatsu Sawa, A. Shigitatsu Sawa.jpg 20210604 Shitagatsu Sawa, A. Shitagatsu Sawa.jpg
     
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  21. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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  22. Xi-feng

    Xi-feng Rising Contributor

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    Thanks D - I've taken your advice on positioning them for protection from light, so I'm looking forward to seeing how they both develop through the year. They're so similar right now, but you're right that there are just a few hints of pinks on the Beni to differentiate it!
     
  23. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Excellent Xi, otherwise they will fry in Summer afternoon sun.
     
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  24. Xi-feng

    Xi-feng Rising Contributor

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    Posting here and on the Shigitatsu Sawa thread, but it's interesting to see the comparison between them.

    Beni Shigitatsu Sawa on the left, Shigitatsu Sawa on the right:

    20210612 B. Shigitatsu Sawa, Shigitatsu Sawa.jpg
     
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  25. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Will answer a lot of questions, so thankyou for showing this Xi.
     
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