Acer palmatum 'Amagi shigure'

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Gomero, Sep 10, 2005.

  1. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    It is curious that under this name we find two different trees in the USA and in Europe (and Japan). The US version is described in Vertrees book (page 110, 3rd ed.) and can be seen here http://www.mountainmaples.com/WS4D_Cookie=9.25.04_13,56,23_15/*ws4d-db-query-Show.ws4d?*ws4d-db-query-Show***DKD-CB-069069069069069073-1383***-Class***-***MM(directory)***.ws4d?MM/testproduct.html

    The European version is here:
    http://www.esveld.nl/htmldia/a/acpasi.htm

    and in Japan:

    http://ganshuku.cool.ne.jp/31_032amagisigure.html

    Maybe Jim knows the explanation

    Regards,
    Gomero
     
  2. mjh1676

    mjh1676 Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: A. palmatum 'Amagi shigure'

    Gomero,

    I don't think I can be of much help, but my opinion is that the Vertrees referenced many Japanese sources for his writings and that I think he tried to adhere as closely as possible to historic and precataloged data. We would think that if this new Amagi shigure existed, the red reticulated form, that he would have addressed it in his description, but he did not.

    The red form is seen on the Mallot French site, Esveld, and Ganshuku, but the green form is seen at Mountian Maples and they give JD credit on their website for helping them start the business. If the Vertrees translation of the name "soft drizzle" is correct, we would assume the green form is correct and you would have to talk to your folks close to home to find out why the name was used again for an entirely different plant.

    Intersting you bring this up as I have noticed the discrepency before also. The red reticuated form looks like as seedling selection from Kasagiyama and sense many of those types of selections have been made in recent years, I would guess the red plant to be much newer than the green palmatum form.

    MJH
     
  3. grdnrman

    grdnrman Member

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    Inquiry to anyone who knows what retail mail order source in USA does offer the red leaf version of AMAGI SHIGURE for sale; I'd like to buy that maple now-Spring 2010. The Buchholz & Buchholz wholesale nursery of Oregon shows the red version which appears to be the same coloration as on the before mentioned European and Japanese websites; whereas the Mountain Maples (USA) site did show a green leaf maple with that name. Can anyone provide info where (in USA) I can mail order buy this red leaf maple? Thanks a lot.
     
  4. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    If you have no luck finding it in the USA, 'Purple Ghost' is considered to be very similar, if not almost identical, and is likely easier to track down.
     
  5. grdnrman

    grdnrman Member

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    To: maf - Northamptonshire, Eng.

    Thank you for your suggestion about PURPLE GHOST. I saw PURPLE GHOST at a very good nursery that specializes in Japanese Maples in suburban Rochester, NY (80 miles west of my home) and I do plan to buy that particular tree from them this Spring 2010. I've only seen photos of AMAGI SHIGURE; it's color seemed to be brighter and of the orangy-reddish-purple color hue. From the photos, there did seem to be some color difference between the two trees but unless I could see the 2 trees side by side in person, I can not be sure how different the colors are. As a side note, my main interest in Japanese Maples is to have/grow a collection of these trees of totally different SUMMERTIME leaf colors. I've started my collection and already have some of these: Fireglow (brighter reddish purple), Autumn Moon (yellow w/amber highlights), Peaches & Cream (pink/white/green), Jordon (pure yellow), Purple Ghost (purple w/veins), Mikazuki (reticulated-pinkish/greenish/grayish/mauve mixed colors), and other DIFFERENT SUMMERTIME leaf colors as I can find them for my zone 5 hardiness landscape/property. Thanks again for your suggestion; I appreciate your input. grdnrman
     
  6. melintir

    melintir Member

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    got mine from french nursery

    [​IMG]

    it is indeed different from the one described by Vertrees in his book
     
  7. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Maf,

    I am growing the two of them. I find 'Amagi shigure' a much slower grower than 'Purple Ghost' (my 'Amagi shigure' is only about 1 m. after 5 years in the ground, no fertilizer). It has smaller leaves and keeps the red hues in shade longer than 'Purple Ghost'. The reticulation is not exactly the same. If I assume that the two plants I am growing are true to the types, then I could probably tell them apart if they are unlabeled.

    Gomero
     
  8. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Gomero,

    Good to see you make a hands on comparison of these two seedling selections of 'Kasagiyama', very interesting. I based my earlier statement on a nice little story I read: On making a trip to Japan several years ago, the nurseryman who introduced 'Purple Ghost' was surprised to see plants at a nursery that he thought were 'Purple Ghost', and couldn't work out how they had arrived there without his knowledge. It turned out the plants in question were the Japanese type 'Amagi shigure', which he was viewing for the first time!

    Alas neither is contained in my own small collection, I may have to try and track down 'Amagi shigure', it should make a good container plant. I had heard that 'Purple Ghost' was more upright and relatively strong growing while 'Amagi shigure' is much slower, good to see that confirmed.

    I wonder if grdnrman located a source in the US? One trend in the American market I have observed is that the popularity of the "Ghost" series has almost saturated the market for reticulated types, and Japanese selections that are available in Europe, such as 'Sawa chidori' and 'Amagi shigure', are slow in coming to market over there.
     
  9. amazingmaples

    amazingmaples Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Today I received a little 'Amagi shigure' as a bonus in my truck load of trees. I did not get a good look at it since I was more worried about unloading the truck but from my first quick glance I would say the leaves are much lighter in color than the purple ghost whic=h were also on the truck. The leaves also seemed much smaller than the PG. Now there is a difference in size of the two trees I am comparing so maybe that will have some impact on the size of the leaves. Here are some photos of the tree.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 2, 2010
  10. plantoid

    plantoid Active Member

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    I've been trying to get my hands on this. Who sells it?
     
  11. winterhaven

    winterhaven Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Oooh, pretty!
     
  12. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    One additional piece of information for this thread. In my garden both plants are under dappled shade with a bit more afternoon sun for 'Purple Ghost'. However I've checked today and the 'Amagi shigure' is noticeably redder than the 'Purple Ghost' which has a lot of leaves changing to green.

    Gomero

    p.s.: LOL, it is my 1000th post here!!
     
  13. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Congrats on the 1000th post!!
     
  14. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    Gomero,
    I agree wholeheartedly with K4's hearty congratulations on your 1000th post!
    Simply put, you are great.
    Mike
     
  15. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Thanks ;-))
    K4 you are not far but Mike, you have to work out a bit harder....

    Gomero
     

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