Acer japonicum 'Vitifolium'

Discussion in 'Maple Photo Gallery' started by mendocinomaples, Apr 1, 2005.

  1. mendocinomaples

    mendocinomaples Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    A very handsome strong growing maple with character throughout the seasons. The bronze spring color will give way to a deep green that bronzes (reddens) nicely in the summer sun. Fall color is outstanding! (The fall photo is untouched.) This tree is one of my favorites
     

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    Last edited: Jun 7, 2005
  2. mendocinomaples

    mendocinomaples Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Acer japonicum Vitifolium

    Same parent tree... maples placed in different conditions... produce quite varied leaf forms.
     

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  3. Laurie

    Laurie Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Acer japonicum 'Vitifolium' - Washington Park Arboretum, Seattle, WA. The photographs of these more deeply dissected leaves of the WPA specimen are in agreement with photographs I have seen of the specimen at the Westonbirt Arboretum.
     

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  4. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    And, of course, the Van Gelderens, Maples for Gardens observe that

    "differences from the species are minor and, according to Krussmann, Manual of Cultivated Broad-leaved Trees & Shrubs, many trees labeled 'Vitifolium' are in fact simply A. japonicum...'Vitifolium' is difficult if not impossible to distinguish from A. japonicum 'Meigetsu' or 'Taki no gawa'."
     
  5. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    "differences from the species are minor and, according
    to Krussmann, Manual of Cultivated Broad-leaved
    Trees & Shrubs, many trees labeled 'Vitifolium' are in
    fact simply japonicum...'Vitifolium' is difficult if not
    impossible to distinguish from A. japonicum 'Meigetsu'
    or 'Taki no gawa'."


    There is a inherent problem here with the spelling used
    in that Takinogawa was written with that common name
    spelling in the Maples of the World book. I believe
    Koidzumi in 1911 spelled the Maple as being Takinogawa,
    of which that spelling was confirmed by a host of people
    both in Japan and elsewhere.

    Now let me bring you up to date a little. The palmatum
    form is Takinokawa, not Taki no gawa as referenced on
    page 76 of the Maples for Gardens book. I take issue
    with this as I have the Maple and brought it in from
    Japan myself in September of 1990. Then there is the
    other problem that Taki no gawa is a considered by a
    few people to be a fictitious name. I happen to be one
    of them.

    What makes this whole issue even more hard to reason
    with is that Sir Harold Hillier had the Takinogawa Maple
    in his collection. I know who he got the Maple from and
    where and who that person got the Maple from in Japan.

    Once a person knows how Vitifolium, Meigetsu and
    Takinogawa are different from each other by the sizes
    and shapes of the leaves, color of the petioles and which
    ones will have the hairs on the petioles and which one
    has hairs that will remain for a while and which one will
    lose those same hairs right after the leaves expand, it is
    not that difficult to separate them unless the Maples
    that were referenced were perhaps not the right plants.
    In defense of a few people I believe this could very well
    have been the whole problem, that the three Maples were
    indeed not the proper Maples to start with. I know one
    of them was not the right Maple and from reading about
    a second Maple, I believe it also was probably not the
    right Maple either to be correctly used for comparitive
    purposes.

    One Maple has by far much larger sized leaves than the
    others. I've seen leaves here and in areas of Oregon
    whereby the leaves are every bit as large as Thompson
    seedless Grape. I've seen two year old grafted plants
    have leaves larger than the size of my fist. What more
    needs to be said? One Maple has the smallest leaves in
    size. One Maple will look closer to an O isami until we
    see the new growth during the late Summer when the
    leaves take upon a different shape, not only from
    O isami but from the older leaves from the Maple
    itself. Fall colors can also separate these Maples from
    each other, in most cases regardless of location. Yes,
    there are times of the year that Takinogawa will look
    a lot like a Meigetsu in the oldest leaves from the
    Spring but the shapes of the leaves during the late
    Summer growth will easily separate them. One will
    have larger sized new Summer growth leaves than
    the older leaves whereas the others new growth
    will become noticeably smaller and with less number
    of lobes (going from 9-11 lobes in the Spring down to
    7-9 lobes in the Summer growth) and the leaves will
    become noticeably more "star shaped" as they were
    referred to in Japan and in some circles here on the
    West Coast.

    I do not know from the photos if Robert has the right
    Maple or not or the same Vitifolium that we got from
    Japan as there are smaller leafed forms that have been
    propagated in Oregon which were sold as Vitifolium
    in the past that were not the right plant. I will know
    what Robert has when I see him and his Maple in the
    Spring.

    Jim
     
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  6. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I support what Jim says regarding Meigetsu and Vitifolium. I have both and observing them throughout the seasons, it is very easy to tell them apart. I cannot give an opinion on Takinokawa or Taki no gawa

    Gomero
     
  7. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Debates on closely similar cultivars require that everyone is on the same page to go anywhere useful. You cannot acquire a single clone sold as a particular cultivar - especially if it is an old cultivar that may have had plenty of time to become represented by multiple introductions - and look at that and know that you are seeing the same plant that somebody else is talking about*, or that you are seeing the full range of variation that has been grown under the same name.

    Sometimes there is a trans-Atlantic rift that appears, with European commerce and collections having a single clone under a name that is represented by multiple clones in North America.

    *Unless you have first verified through comparison and correspondance that the other party is talking about exactly the same plant, and nothing more
     
  8. jhayes5032

    jhayes5032 Active Member

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    wild and crazy fall color with huge leaves
     

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  9. mjh1676

    mjh1676 Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    The leaves on my plant have emerged much larger this season than in seasons past, so I thought I would contribute a photo--nearly as big as a hand, not quite. Maybe in a week or two.
     

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  10. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    " N.E Brown {1876}, Great Britain ", from "Maples of the World". Leaves up to 6'' {15cm.} across, 9 - 11 lobes. In sun from mid day till evening, western exposure. Beautiful intense yellow and rose fall colour, this year more reddish. Always good colour. Strong grower , more so than trees labeled A. j. 'Aconitifolium' and 'Parsonii' {maybe invalid name}, and strongly branched. Seed has not germinated. Seems different than the pics posted by Laurie so... not sure. H 18' x W 12' { H 6m. x W 4m.} at around 20 years, multiple trunks from base. Pic 1 - Oct.9/07, pic 2 - Oct.19/07, pic 3 - Oct.21/07 {wet}. Pic 4 - Nov.10/07
     

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    Last edited: Nov 16, 2007
  11. Silver surfer

    Silver surfer Contributor 10 Years

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    Thought you might like to see a pic of Acer japonicum "Vitifolium". ( According to the label)
    It was taken on 27th September 2009 at Westonbirt. The National Arboretum. UK
    It is a very old mature specimen. It is one of the first Acers in the Arboretum to change colour in the autumn and every year reliably turns this beautiful colour.
     

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  12. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    amazing!
     
  13. nelran

    nelran Active Member

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    Well, I don't know which one of the three forms Vitifolium, Meigetsu or
    Takinogawa is my cultivar, but is labeled as 'Japonicum Vitifolium' and came from Oregon. (Perhaps somebody in the forum can identify the 'true form' or confirm that it is a Vitifolium). It just a three years graft, but the form of the leaves (quite big when reach the mature size, the're almost the size of my palm); and the profusion of the flowers is quite amazing. Here some pictures (First three pics were taken yesterday, last three a week ago).
     

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  14. Samara

    Samara Active Member Maple Society

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    Can anyone tell me how quickly A. j. 'Vitifolium' grows in the northeastern U.S.?

    Thanks.
     
  15. rufretic

    rufretic Active Member

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    This picture shows how large the leaves are on my Vitifolium. I forgot to measure but my palm is about 4" so the leaf must be over 6". I also have Takinogawa and my two plants are definitly not the same.
     

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  16. LoverOfMaples

    LoverOfMaples Contributor Maple Society

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    I love this big leaf variety. Very strong grower!
     

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  17. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    These are mine this Spring. Leaves Sooo big. Agree totally with D @LoverOfMaples.
     

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  18. AlainK

    AlainK Generous Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    I don't know if I already mentioned that, but "un empan" is the distance between the tip of the little finger and the tip of the thumb when you extend your hand. It's an old unit of measurement based of course on men's hands, and is the equivalent of roughly 20 cm.

    Online translation yields "span" in English, but the meaning of "span" is much more extended than "empan" which is only used as this archaic unit of measurement. Yet, a lot of people still use it when they don't have their measuring tape at hand.
     
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  19. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Adding to the great conversation, I just took this of my Vitifolium with my old span hand underneath. As you say Alain, this does not include a ladies hand, so a very sexest measurement !!!!!
    It was the same with measuring my horse, he was 16.2 hands, but my wife made it 17.1 hands.
    Thank goodness for modern measurement.
     

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  20. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    My Vitifolium is now moving more rapidly than I would like tbh, towards Autumn colouring. Here it is today 28th July 2020.
     

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  21. LoverOfMaples

    LoverOfMaples Contributor Maple Society

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    How long have you had this one D. Is it in the ground?
     
  22. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    @LoverOfMaples, 4 years now D and it is in the ground. Sun until 1500hrs, then full shade. Not everybodies cup of tea, but I like something different amongst the disectum's and palmate leafed varieties.
     
  23. LoverOfMaples

    LoverOfMaples Contributor Maple Society

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    It looks nice my friend. I can't wait to see the fall color. Mine isn't in the ground yet. Thinking about putting it in next year to see what kind of growth and color it get.
     
  24. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    @LoverOfMaples, I will be sure to post it D. It will be interesting to compare colours from pot to ground. Not long now !!!!!!!!!!
     
  25. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    7th August 2020, rain through the night thankfully, as it's going to be the hottest day this year in the UK. I will post my maples during and after this heatwave.
    New growth in this heat, not seen this before, will it endure after this week !!?
     

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