Acer circinatum 'Ki setsudoe' / Acer x circinatum 'Kisetsu dore'

Re: Acer Palmatum Ki setsudde

I have one of these plants, and took a couple of photos for you. I've had mine growing in a fairly shady spot. Here's the description from the originator:

Ki Setsudoe is a seedling of an Acer circinatum which was growing in proximity with a variety of Acer palmatum cultivars, so it is thought to be a hybrid. Its growth rate is about half that of Acer circinatum, and its natural tendency is to grow into a multi-trunked large shrub of perhaps 10-12ft height and width. The name means "(color) in all seasons".

 

Copied the above from another thread, where K4 answers a question about this cultivar. He adds:

 

Leave outline is that of an Asian species, inflorescence also has non-A. circinatum structure.

 

Here are some pictures Norm sent me of this cultivar. Spring, Summer, and Fall.

Ron, since this is a hybrid wouldn't we expect it not to be just like Circinatum?

 

Hi Kaintain,
I just picked up this as a 2yrs graft but the tag said like you stated here 'Acer palmatum Ki Setsudoe' but this tree was listed at the Acer Circinatum here. So which one is this really belong to?. thanks

 

My maple supplier have this one listed under palmatum. This is my 'Ki setsude' today.

 

Think you might have to change the tag D.

 

Yep. We had a talk about it but I can't remember her exact reason for keeping it as a palmatum.

 

This is quite an interesting thread on hybrids D.
Acer circinatum Cultivars or hybrids ?

 

I've read this one D. I came across it when I was getting ready to buy my first circinatum. Very good read.

 

Ah understood D, wasn't sure if you had seen it. Agreed it is a good read.

 

I haven't had a lot of luck with them so far. But I know there is one out there that will adjust and thrive outside of its normal habitat.

 

I'm sure it will D. Purserverance is the key!!

 

Update:

 

Beautiful bronze/ greens D and there's those feet again......Lol.

 

lmao, d i was trying my best to not get my feet in the pics.

 

Lol.

 

Hi, just browsing by this thread while classifying.

The correct name of the cultivar is 'Kisetsu dore'. Really. Even though no one lists it that way. It is certainly Acer × circinatum 'Kisetsu dore', or according to the Maple Society Classification, which avoids the species confusion, Acer 'Kisetsu dore', Atropurpureum Group. (Because it keeps a reddish tinge during the summer months). It was introduced by World Plants in the mid 1990's, discovered by Jack Muldoon at Maplestone Ornamentals. The source of this information is Mr. Alan Tabler, who was present, knew all the parties, and confirmed the name. HTH.

 

I have added what you say is the full correct name to the thread title, but have left the original thread name as well.

 

The cross symbol is used with separate hybrid names only. When such have been published. And not when only half of a parentage is known, as in "Acer x circinatum" - the name of a single pure species is never presented by itself in conjunction with a cross symbol. Which is a statement that the species mentioned is a hybrid. Hence instead A. 'Kisetsu-dore', without any indication of parentage. Either a full hybrid binomial is used - when available - or none of the parentage is mentioned. A full hybrid binomial such A. x freemanii.

Also, if A. 'Kisetsu-dore' is from A. circinatum x A. palmatum it does not belong to A. palmatum Atropurpureum Group. Which consists of pure A. palmatum variants only.

 

https://maplesociety.org/maple-home-2/common-area/cultivar-area/cultivar-classification-and-key/

The official Maple Society classification serves to solve the species/hybrid problem by grouping together the frequently crossing Japanese Maples, plus Acer circinatum, and classifying them into groups. It would be pointless to introduce just another classification which only includes the palmatum complex, since it would ignore the frequent culprits like "Acer shirasawanum" Jordan. The classification was adopted in 2017, and will serve as the basis for EU plant labeling for Acer.

Further, regardless of the use of the cross symbol, in a purely botanical setting (which this is not), it is omnipresent in the trade to use it as I have to indicate the known parent. I don't need to be reminded of proper grammar when I take a sentence and put a dangling preposition at the end of it after. I also don't need to be reminded when I use common trade usage in this context.

Thank you.

 

Well then, they are apparently doing it wrong in both instances - are you aware that there is a published Code that governs horticultural plant naming?

 

What do you think?

Are you being intentionally obfuscatory, or do you really think I'm proposing using the × in this context? Are you being intentionally insulting, or do you suspect that Douglas Justice, Cor van Gelderen, Alan Tabler, Ed Shinn, to name a few, are actually making it up as we go along? That truly seems a bit foolish.

Regardless, I have no time to pursue the discussion, I could suggest other members of the Cultivar Working Group, but I know they have no more time (or perhaps less) than I.

Therefore, best wishes. -E