A.P. Shirazz

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Jerry_Br, Jan 17, 2007.

  1. Jerry_Br

    Jerry_Br Member

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    Can anyone who has A.P. Shirazz tell me if is it significantly different than A.P. Beni komachi? Or the differnces so small that it is only for a collector who wants one of everything?

    Regards
    Jerry
     
  2. Scion Swapper

    Scion Swapper Active Member

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    Hi Jerry,

    I haven't seen one personally, but I thought it looks alot like 'Beni Shien' from the photos I've seen. Unfortunately, this one will be patented.

    Brian
     
  3. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Saw this leafing out inside a CostCo the other day. So, it has now reached the level of frequency on the North American market to appear with mostly very common varieties at a warehouse store.
     
  4. Silver surfer

    Silver surfer Generous Contributor 10 Years

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    It has also reached the U.K.market. A friend bought us one last autumn from B&Q....it was in the end of season sale.... half price! It has just come into leaf. It is clearly variegated.
    This pic was taken at Westonbirt, The National Arboretum, last weekend.
    Sorry, just realised that this thread started 2 years ago, I was just following on from Rons post!
     

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    Last edited: Apr 30, 2009
  5. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    They are quite different, even for a casual observer. If you care to check the Maple Gallery, there is a thread for each of those cultivars with pics.

    Gomero

    P.S. Oops, I did not paid attention to the initial date for the thread :o))
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2009
  6. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    I believe Gwens Rose Delight which is trademarked Shirazz by Novalis is the same cultivar as
    Geisha Gone Wild - the only difference I can see is these cultivars have 3 different names but I
    believe they share identical genetics. Novalis has aggressively marketed Shirazz which is why you
    saw it in Costco, Ron B.
     
  7. Scion Swapper

    Scion Swapper Active Member

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    I only have a few very young 'Geisha Gone Wild' and one large 'Shirazz' and, based on my limited observations of the GGW, I agree with Mike that they are VERY similar, if not the same. 'Geisha' (the original 'Geisha') and 'Shirazz' both came from Stepping Stones (formerly Dunkin & Davies) in New Zealand. It is plausible that 'Shirazz' was a seedling or sport from 'Geisha'. If it was in fact a sport/seedling, it is possible that a similar sport (more possible) or seedling (less possible) may have been found here in the US and named 'GGW' (giving some credit to the heritage of the plant from which GGW was spawned).

    I don't prop 'Shirazz' because it is patented and, last I checked, Stepping Stones was not issuing licenses.

    Brian
     
  8. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    As mentioned above Shirazz is a trademark, never presented in signal quotes. The cultivar is 'Gwen's Rose Delight' (or 'Geisha Gone Wild' - whichever is correct).

    Jello : Shirazz

    Gelatine : 'Gwen's Rose Delight'

    Shirazz is a marketing tool used to gain financially from sales of the 'Glen's Rose Delight' cultivar.
     
  9. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    When a cultivar has three different names like this, I would hope that at least one of them wouldn't be tacky and crass....... Oh well, I guess that was too much to hope for.

    It looks like an attractive plant, but I wouldn't buy it with any of those names on the label. (Maybe I could find an unlabeled specimen and pretend I didn't know what it was.) Why do so many new introductions of Acer Palmatum have to have such terrible names? They sound more like gaudy Petunia hybrids than Japanese Maples.

    And don't get me started on Krazy Krinkle, Kandy Kitchen et al........
     
  10. Scion Swapper

    Scion Swapper Active Member

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    My understanding is that 'Shirazz' is in fact patented, not trademarked. If that is the case, it really doesn't matter who had the chicken or the egg, the patent must be respected. If the patent holder did genetic tests and determined that the other names were clones of 'Shirazz', they would win a lawsuit. I am not a fan of patents, but that is the reality. In my opinion, none of the three are patent worthy.
     
  11. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Since I have a GGW, I'm glad I didn't waste my money on a Shirazz.

    When I discover a new maple cultivar, I'm going to name it 'Nameless', and then everyone can just call it whatever they want! :D
     
  12. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    Good idea, Doug, but it will be used as a source of scions each of which will be given a separate
    name and we will have the same genetics with multiple names! But it is a good idea.
     
  13. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    If it's 'Nameless', then everyone can name it for whatever they want. It will be like having a sweater with your initials embroidered on it. You can name your tree after your wife, or your kid, or your dog - or even your favorite WWF wrestler!! LOL!!
     
  14. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    The patent was assigned to 'Gwen's Rose Delight'.

    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1="gwens+rose+delight"&OS=

    The present variety arose as a sport from a plant of Acer palmatum `Geisha` (non-patented). This discovery was made at 90 Waitara Rd, Brixton, New Plymouth, New Zealand in the summer of 2001...

    The variety was compared with `Geisha,` `Butterfly` and `Beni Schishihenge` (non patented varieties). `Geisha` had a different form with spotted variegations. The leaves of `Butterfly` were smaller and greener with no pink/red colouration. `Beni Schishihenge` has a smaller leaf with irregular salmon pink margins. In the present variety the leaf colour which is predominantly green/purple with pale pink to white margin. The leaf is larger and the plants are taller with a more robust habit.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2009
  15. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    All of which re-inforces the decision I made last year to no longer show any interest in these 'new' varieties, and to concentrate my collection on plants in the earlier lists
     
  16. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Actually I agree with Sam, I'm pretty much not buying any palmatums not on the old lists. Just not worth it.

    As for GGW, the name is without question offensive, and holds about as much interest as some of the old "Monstruosa" name variations.

    -E
     
  17. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    >I will now concentrate on building up a collection of the 'old standards' which have been well tried and tested<

    Keeping in my mind that you will probably often not be growing the same clone as was being looked at in Japan during the 19th century.
     
  18. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Ah Ron ... who knows nowadays anyway?
     
  19. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    While I have often complained that too many 'new' cultivars,that are indistinguishable from existing ones, are being proposed all the time, I do not share the view that all 'new' cultivars do not match the 'old' cultivars. There is a lot of crap introduced in the last 20 years but there are also outstanding selections worth, leaf by leaf, any in the old list; like 'Orange Dream', 'Summer Gold', 'Orangeola', 'Villa Taranto' and a few others. I will also include Shirazz in this list since its variegation is really new (and, to me, pretty).

    Concerning the issue of GGW vs. Shirazz, I have been growing Shirazz for 3 years but this is my first season with GGW. I would need to observe them for several seasons before I could draw any conclusions. So far GGW seems to be stronger grower, much less susceptible to pseudomonas and with brighter colors than Shirazz but I'll need to wait until 2011 at least to conclude.

    Gomero

    P.S.: I agree that some cultivar names are a turned down. Japanese names sound better mainly because we do not understand what they mean. Talking about this subject with some Japanese enthusiasts during the Maple Symposium, they thought that Western sounding names were great.
     

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