a mugo pine on steroids?

Discussion in 'Gymnosperms (incl. Conifers)' started by ccd, Nov 22, 2006.

  1. ccd

    ccd Member

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    Wonder if anyone knows what this pine might be? just by sight - if not I will head back to the site to look at the needles.

    Thanks!
     

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  2. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Not unusual, just old enough to have some size. Notice that it started out like you were expecting, the stems coming together at the base to indicate when it was once a small bush.

    A mugo pine in Toppenish, WA had an average crown spread of 49 feet in 1993. Another, in Sumner, WA was 55 feet high the previous year. Both are listed by Van Pelt, Champion Trees of Washington State (Washington, 1996).

    Note also we have the mountain pine (Pinus mugo uncinata) in plantings in this region:

    "Mountain and Mugo pines intergrade and hybridize to a bewildering extent. If Seattle had only the two extremes (shrubby Mugo and tree-like Mountain pine) our task would be easy. But some of our specimens are intermediate enough to be called either name. The following is an oversimplification: Mugo Pine in Seattle is a common shrub, many-stemmed, 1-6' tall, usually wider, with cones 3/4-1 1/2" long. Mountain pine in Seattle is an uncommon tree, 10-40' tall, with cones 1 1/2-2 3/4" long having markedly thicker, knobbier scales." (Jacobson, Trees of Seattle - Second Edition)

    The height of the Sumner specimen would suggest that it was a mountain pine but Van Pelt lists other examples of that one under its own heading. Jacobson lists the following big Mugo pines in Seattle (compare these with yours):

    - Green Lake: Pitch n' Putt golf course has a Mugo pine 22' x 4' 9 1/4" x 42 1/2' wide
    - Mt Pleasant Cemetary: in the middle is a Mugo pine 24' x 6' 0" x 34 1/2' wide
    - S.U.: of 3 Mugo pines at 10th Ave & Columbia St, tallest are 26' and 25'
    - 5811 28th Ave NW: a Mugo pine 24 1/2' tall
     
  3. ccd

    ccd Member

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    Hi Ron B -

    Fascinating - you say it is not that unusual BUT how many years do you think it would take to get this large? The dilemma I am facing is to whether remove the shrub/tree as it is not very attractive at eye level or to keep it for it's value as a specimen that represents the passage of time and a common planting palette from the year it was planted. It is definitely a survivor - no doubt there were more along this edge.

    ccd
     
  4. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    I would cut it down. To guesstimate the age count the growths (internodes).
     
  5. ccd

    ccd Member

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    Thanks Ron - its memory will live on in photos.
     
  6. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Pinus mugo has two subspecies, subsp. mugo, which is a shrub up to 3-4m tall in central/eastern Europe (southern & eastern Alps, Balkans), and subsp. uncinata, a tree up to 20m tall in western Europe (northwestern Alps, Pyrenees). They hybridise and intergrade freely where they meet in the western and northern Alps; the hybrid is known as Pinus mugo nothosubsp. rotundata ("notho" = hybrid). I'd suspect this is what your tree is (it is fairly common in cultivation).

    I'd guess that specimen is about 40-50 years old; if it was mine, I'd keep it, but prune off the low dead branches to improve the appearance.
     
  7. ccd

    ccd Member

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    Hi Michael,

    I'm torn now - removing the lower branches is a possibility except that they are the size of trunks and will look unsightly once pruned - on the other hand 40-50 year's growth is substantial and about right for the age of the house. I have not seen any othe specimens like this in the Vancouver area - perhaps they are more common in Britain and northern Europe but don't seem to be here. Still pondering what to do......
    Thankyou for the information - I had no idea that mugo pines could reach such a size both in Europe and in the Pacific Northwest. Do you have any photos you could post of a good looking specimen?

    ccd
     
  8. Ralph Walton

    Ralph Walton Active Member 10 Years

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    I've pruned up a row of Mugos similar to yours and they looked fine when we were done. Pretty much one cut at a time then stand back and walk around it to plan the next cut.
    Plan "B" is available to you at any time: one last cut at ground level, but why not give the other a try?

    Ralph
     
  9. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    I know of several over here very similar in shape and size, but sorry, I don't have photos of them (and they're just far enough away to make a photo trip a bit of a trek :-(
     
  10. KarinL

    KarinL Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Ralph's plan sounds like a good one, with the added option that you could thin the trunks a bit too; take out a couple to give it a more open or more narrow shape, whatever you like. I'd do it over several weeks; always live with it a while to see how you like it and what you still itch to cut.
     

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