3d Computer generated Rainforest Plants

Discussion in 'HortForum' started by Naima, Apr 28, 2010.

  1. Naima

    Naima Active Member

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    Hello , I am Naima , and I hope this is a good place to ask for some help , I am trying to recreate a fictional Tropical Island , with an inner rainforest in its interiors all in CGI on a Crytek rendering engine , The island will them once finished be uploaded and visitable freely on the Blue Mars Online virtual World....

    I am looking for References , help and guidance in finding the right trees to model , reproduce and put in there , looking for pictures , details and knowledge about making a good reproduction of a fictional tropical ambient ....

    Altough I could just create some random trees give a tropical feel and scatter them around is not what I would lie to do , since I would like it to be more realistic and get feedback on the look and results .... if anyone is interested please let me know here in this forum thread and so I will know if I can go further updating this thread or not ..... I hope to receive much help :) ....

    Here a sample picture of what it can be like the world ...


    http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9649/bmlasarenasshore.jpg



    EDIT:



    Ok so starting to organize what in where ...



    Rainforest:

    Emergent Layer : 45-55 m

    Trees:


    Tualang
    Banyan
    Ceiba pentandra
    Strangler Figs


    Bushes:

    Plants:

    Epiphytes (Orchids and bromeliads)
    ferns
    Heliconia
    Orchids
    White Trillium




    Lianas:

    Strychnos toxifera
    philodendron
    rattan palms
    strangler Fig



    Canopy Layer 10 - 20 m ?


    rubber tree
    Tualang
    Banyan
    Cedrella odorata
    Cinnamomum verum
    Cecropia palmata
    Ceiba pentandra
    Strangler Figs
    Mangroves

    Understorey Layer 1 - 3 m ?

    Coconut palms
    Cycads
    Fan palms
    rubber tree
    kapok trees
    Tualang
    Banyan
    Cedrella odorata
    Cinnamomum verum
    Cecropia palmata
    Ceiba pentandra
    Strangler Figs
    Musa (bananas)
    Mangroves


    Shrub Layer

    Ground Floor

    Ferns



    Jungle:

    Trees:

    As for Rainforest Canopy , Understorey , shrubs and groundfloor but more open less dense .... Max Height 10 m ?


    Plants:


    Araceae
    Gesneriaceae


    Plants:

    passionflowers



    Cliffs

    Hanging Bushes


    River and Lagoon

    Trees:

    Mangroves
    Pterocarpus officinalis


    Bushes:

    Plants:

    Water Lily

    Underwater


    Beachs shore:
    Trees:
    Coco nucifera
    Washingtonia robusta
    Sabal minor
    Phoenix canariensis

    Bushes:
    hibiscus


    Plants:

    Palm Forest:
    Trees:
    Coco nucifera
    Oenocarpus bataua
    Bactris gasiepes
    Caryota palms
    Euterpe oleracea
    Trachycarpus

    Bushes

    hibiscus bushes


    Prairie

    Trees:

    Bushes:

    Plants:
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 1, 2010
  2. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Old-world tropical forest, or New-world tropical forest? It's an important decision, because the trees of the two types are quite different. So is the undergrowth.
     
  3. Naima

    Naima Active Member

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    Hello , thanks for The interest , I am actually not yet decided about thre theme couse the Island center will also host a Ancien ruins site , and I have to decide among something like Angkhor Vat or Chicen ITza so Mesoamerican or Asia , I would go for now to make both of them since its a fiction al word I could even mix up , but I would like still to have good references and make proper trees , like kapok , banyan etc...

    A preview of the Island ...

    http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5035/lasarenasmap.jpg
     
  4. Barbara Lloyd

    Barbara Lloyd Well-Known Member

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    Naima - Just a thought. Have you seen the American movie Avitar? I seem to remember some people criticizing the flora but it might give you some ideas. After all, it's a place of and in your mind and making. It may give you someone else's ideas on what should or shouldn't be. barb :)))
     
  5. Naima

    Naima Active Member

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    Yeh I saw the movie , gorgeouse but too alien /fantasy environment , I would like to recreate something realistic ....
    For that I will need a proper List of Trees to reproduce and good reference pics like leaves , bark and shape ....

    Usually I would say like

    Rainforest area

    tropical palm forest

    jungle area

    Prairie open field tropical area

    etc

    eventually I need sample trees not all of the list of trees available , but the most common and significative , Lieke 4 - 5 trees , 4 - 5 bushes etc then by making variations and intermixing I can work out the effect ... something like this ...

    http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/10/9191/alfie_riverstream.JPG
     
  6. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    OK then.

    For rainforest areas, look at:
    Cedrella odorata, Cinnamomum verum, Cecropia palmata, Ceiba pentandra and its relatives, and Strangler Figs (Ficus spp.) Also, Musa (bananas) and their relatives, Mangroves (for the lagoon envrionment) and Tectonis. Some of the most interesting rainforests are semi-permanently flooded and have to be navegated by canoe.

    For tropical palm forests, it will depend on whether you're on the beach or not.

    On the beach,
    Coco nucifera, Washingtonia robusta, Sabal minor, Phoenix canariensis

    Not on the beach, check out
    Oenocarpus bataua, Bactris gasiepes, the Caryota palms, Euterpe, and Trachycarpus.

    In the "Jungle" area, you can reuse your rainforest trees, but you really need to take a look at the plants from the family Araceae - these are common jungle undegrowth in all tropics, and there's a variety of rather fantastic leaf shapes and colours. You should also look at members of the Gesneriaceae, and the passionflowers.

    In the tropical prairies, it would do you good to look at the vegetation of Brazil's Caatinga and Cerrado zones, the Ecuadorean and Peruvian Paramo zones, and the Argentine/Chilean Altiplano. These are varied by altitude.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2010
  7. Naima

    Naima Active Member

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    That's a very nice list thanyou very much :) , do you think you can provide me some direct pictures of those ? Like I usually would need Bark , leaves , branches and shape , I work usually make texture from the first two and use the last two to reconstruct the model ..... here is a model of aracacea ....


    That was my first Draft for the Areas and plants ... may be you experts woudl liek to modify that?

    I 'd like if possible to have a mark on What plant is specific for asia or south america or can be used for both ...

    Again I can't thankyou guys enough for this help :) its really important to make a good job :) ... and I Will sure to be naming the site for help , actually I may even put some inside indicators if are interested from the online world...


    May be organizing it like that would be good :


    Biome area

    Plant type , shape type ( plant , bush or tree or more if possible) , Location ( asia , pacific , South america ) , presence ( common , uncommon , rare , very rare )

    what you think?
     
  8. kevind76

    kevind76 Active Member

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    That's a very cool project idea! I can't be of much help for what you are looking for, but I think it would be a great idea to add some orchids in there somewhere.
    Here are some suggestions of some really showy types:
    For Asian understory: Paphiopedilum armeniacum, bellatulum, micranthum, rothschildianum, lowii, sanderianum, spicerianum, venustum and others.
    For Asian epiphyte: Phalaenopsis schilleriana and others, Coelogyne flaccida and dayana and others, some epiphytic Cymbidiums (canaliculatum, aloifolium, dayanum), Dendrobiums (phalaenopsis, anosmum, pierardii, antennatum) Dendrochillum.
    For South American understory: Phragmipedium (terrestrial, but in more open areas) besseae, caudatum, longifolium, kovachii, Sobralia (also more open areas),
    For South American epiphyte: Cattleya, Laelia (purpurata), Oncidium, Brassia.

    Don't know if you plan on putting any flowering plants in there, but those are soem suggestions. Just Google the names I listed to see if you'd like to use them. I'd love to see the finished product!
     
  9. Naima

    Naima Active Member

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    I definetly think to add also some flowering plants as long as they are present in a real rainforest area etc but I woul dneed to know of the many plants and stuff the density and rarity to place them right and not overplace , but most of all I need sources , is very hard to find good sources for example I would start if possible with a couple of requests :

    I woul dneed some nice pics of a ground of a rainforest soil and some palm bark textures I found many online but they just dont look good for the textur making :) ....
     
  10. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Here's what primary-growth rainforest understory looks like, with even my friend Carlos for scale.

    You may find the photos on my blog helpful - I Speak for the Trees
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Naima

    Naima Active Member

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    I cant day what trees are those tough ...
     
  12. Naima

    Naima Active Member

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    Ok so starting to organize what in where ...





    Beachs shore:

    Coco nucifera
    Washingtonia robusta
    Sabal minor
    Phoenix canariensis
    hibiscus bushes

    Palm Forest:

    Coco nucifera
    Oenocarpus bataua
    Bactris gasiepes
    the Caryota palms
    Euterpe
    Trachycarpus.
    hibiscus bushes

    Prairie

    Rainforest:


    Coconut palms
    Ferns
    Cycads
    trunks and Dead trunks
    Fan palms
    rubber tree
    Durian trees
    kapok trees
    Tualang
    Banyan
    Cedrella odorata
    Cinnamomum verum
    Cecropia palmata
    Ceiba pentandra
    Strangler Figs
    Musa (bananas)
    Mangroves

    Jungle:


    As for Rainforest but more open less dense ....

    plus

    Araceae
    Gesneriaceae
    passionflowers


    Cliffs


    Hanging Bushes

    River and Lagoon



    Mangroves


    Underwater
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2010
  13. Naima

    Naima Active Member

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    Ok I would like i possible some explanation on the difference on Banyan tree and fig strangler , if I want to make a strangler fig I should make just roots ? or what? I cant really understand when I look at pics couse then I read the fig grows on another tree , so I am not sure what is what , like on the Angkhor vat ruins I see all those amazing roots trees but in one pic I read kapok in another Banyan , another fig etc so I am not sure ....

    Also how about the durian tree is it a< common thing in the rainforests or jungles ? otherwise I will just skip it ...

    Also the congo jungles / rainforests are akin more to the ones of asia or the ones of South america?

    skipped tectonis couse when I google I just find titts...

    Also I have updated the first post , so I filled in Trees etc for the severall biomes ( hope is the right word ? )

    Then If someone canh help me fill the other areas like plants and bushes would be gratefull :) ..

    Also do you have any direct top to down picture of a rainforest stoil not too filled of eleaves? to be able to take a texture out of it , needs not have shadows or highlights and quite large :=) ....

    Also what trees is what in this picture drawing sketch that seems to summarize pretty well the Layers distribution?

    http://www.wimeuverman.nl/afbeeldingen/rainforest_layers_vegetatio.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2010
  14. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Strangler fig is what's shown in the photo above - they grow from the top of the canopy downwards like lianas, normally strangling whatever tree they started in, and when they hit the ground they begin to form roots. Those big buttresses that my friend Carlos is in front of belong to a strangler fig that's about 100 years old. Banyan are also fig trees, but they start from the ground and go upwards, developing a bottled trunk and eventually those fantastic standing roots.

    Durian are relatively common in Old-world tropical jungles, so I'd stay with 'em.

    I'll take a look in my archives; I should have some good forest-floor photos in there somewhere.
     
  15. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    The sketch is pretty good so far as distribution goes, but the density you've got there is closer to secondary forest than primary - I'd be spacing the trees a great deal more in any area you think of as old growth. You've also got a bit of a scale problem with those buttress roots on your tallest tree - they're normally 2-3 meters tall on established trees like that; much taller than humans. For particularly large Kapok trees, they're the only thing you can really see of the tree from the ground unless you hurt your neck looking up (and then the epiphytes generally get in the way of your seeing the canopy.)

    Tectonis are Teak trees, which are found in both old-world first-growth forests and in secondary new-world ones where they've escaped from cultivation - if you google Teak you should end up with more trees. They used to be quite common in the Asian rainforests.
     
  16. Naima

    Naima Active Member

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    Ok Thanks, I am not sure yet about the spacing and placing but this is a secondary problem since it will be regarding the "level design" when I will physically place the trees and plants in the graphic engine .... for themoment the important goal is to reach a consistent number of trees , plants , bushes to use as a pool with enough variants and so to be able to place them after when the time comes ...

    For the moment I have decided to focus on the Kapok tree , so I will be making set of them , some with superbuttres roots and very tall like 40 m some smaller like 20 m or so , some young like may be 3 m and some very young like plants just born ... eventually to use as a ground cover but not sure ... I will mostly make a miz of plants on the ground .... for sure the kapok ones will be very visible from very far , while the other vegetation will be instead more limited according to the vicinance of the visitors ...



    I would like now to ask if possible to have some Soils from rainforest sample pictures , if someone has , I 'd need direct top to bottom pictures and I coduln't find any source on google unfortunately .... a mix of earth stones , small wood and some leaves would be great , couse the rest of the items scattered on it will be 3d too....


    Also about the Kapok or Ceiba pentandra , I have found different pictures of the bark texture type , here is one , that seems mostly white and somehow striated like the skin of an Elephant ....

    http://www.srl.caltech.edu/personnel/krubal/rainforest/Edit560s6/www/images/plants/treetrunk.jpg

    http://designholeonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/kapok.png

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_oH7YVmRWh...2_LO5-Pn6XU/s400/Araucaria+bidwillii+bark.jpg

    http://www.thisfabtrek.com/journey/...ue-bijagos/bubaque-giant-kapok-fromager-4.jpg

    then this other one that has spikes all over , why this difference and which one shoul dI attain to?

    http://lh6.ggpht.com/_tk97FLp2v2Q/RtK1gUECAeI/AAAAAAAABHs/7DL2gmcvRGs/Durbs+August+166.jpg

    http://images.cdn.fotopedia.com/flickr-2090281861-original.jpg

    http://www.botgard.ucla.edu/html/bo...otany/images/plantarmature/Ceibaprickles2.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2010
  17. Naima

    Naima Active Member

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  18. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    All of those bark textures are valid, and they'll vary according to the age of the tree. Since you're talking about using a mixture of tree sizes/ages, this should actually be quite helpful to you.

    Trees of less than 10 m or 100 years of age have the spikiest bark - it's an adaptation to keep climbers and epiphytes off the tree while it's still too small to resist them. Between 100 and 200 years of age and 10 to 20 m have smaller spikes or scars where they have dropped off, and begin to develop the striations. The trunks at this point also seem to bottle out a bit, especially in areas with irregular rainfall. Above 20 m and 200 years, the trees develop the huge buttress roots and the bark loses the striations in favour of a sort of pale greenish symbiotic moss.

    You should also consider that Kapok are truly deciduous trees - in your island's dry season, they should drop their leaves and be covered in flowers, followed by pods, and when the wet season comes again they develop leaves.

    Attached are some photos of Kapok trees and bark/leaf textures of various ages, illustrating what I'm talking about. I've arranged them from youngest to oldest. The last photo is what the South American rainforest canopy looks like from the top of a 40m Kapok. The only trees in this area that rival the Kapoks for height are Oenocarpus bataua (Hungurahua palms).
     

    Attached Files:

  19. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    For your IDs, here goes. And it's interesting that you mention "Tarzan" trees - the best lianas/"vines" to swing on are the questing down-roots of younger strangler figs. I'm speaking from experience here.

    Tree A is a strangler fig - that's actually really classic behaviour for them - they just grow right around obstacles. In the case of the trees they strangle, sometimes the tree inside dies, and what's left is just this neat lattice of the fig's roots. You get a lot of animal nesting in situations like that, particularly monkeys and larger birds.
    Tree B is the fallen trunk of a palm that's now playing host to a number of understory plants. From the roots, it's one of the "walking" types of palm.
    Tree C is another strangler fig - a good example of early-development buttressing.
    Tree D is also a strangler fig.
    Tree E is an older Kapok or similar, judging from the canopy shape and what I can tell of the plants growing in it.
    I can't see Tree F - the link is telling me I don't have permission.
    Tree G is another strangler fig - a great example of the hollowing with root lattice I was talking about.
    Tree H looks like another fig of some sort, judging by the way it's growing sideways (which is common in figs.)

    Attached at the bottom of this post are some soil/forest floor shots (admittedly, there are plants in there, but it's as close as I could get to actual straight-down shots for soil texture.) Most rainforest soil visually appears to simply be layers and layers of leaves in various states of decomposition - bark can be a component close to dying/downed trees, but there is very little stone. However, I'd caution you that unless the forest type is old, primary-growth, the forest floor is generally covered in vegetation, so very little by way of the actual soil is really visible. And just as a side note, in most areas of primary rainforest, I can easily stick my arm into the soil as far up as my armpit without hitting the bottom - it's incredibly soft and spongy to walk on and quite loose in many places.

    I'll keep looking in my photo archives; I'm pretty sure I've got some good shots of fully flooded forest growth and also fluvial forest growth along seasonally flooded riverbanks. And I should have some neat full-tree shots of the kind of things that grow in fluvial (seasonally flooded) lakes.
     

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  20. Naima

    Naima Active Member

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    Very cool thankyou a lot , But I would need an clean version shot of the ground if possible , without plants and leaves , mostly clean like what type of terrain is with some scatter stones eventually and some debris and rotten leaves , a bit of everything , all other details like dead leave s ( just arrived or stat rotting )( ground plants , bigger stones and small trunks of woods will be added after procedurarly in the engine , wich works pretty nice since it gives a more realistic 3d effect , but for that I d need t work on a more clean under texture... :) ... so basically about the tree figures most of them are Figs , also A lot of trees in Angkhor vat pictures seemed to me like figs but in the pics often is reported to be a kapok tree....

    Edit also what kind of trees are those small thin ones usually around the big ones?

    http://www.nybg.org/images/wordpress/022609rainforest.jpg

    http://www.starrylady.com.au/Hawaii/Rainforest.jpg

    http://students.umf.maine.edu/orourkcj/public.www/Assignments/rainforest2.jpg

    http://www.destination360.com/central-america/costa-rica/images/s/costa-rica-rainforest.jpg

    And now that another weird looking interesting tree shape that I have no idea what it may be ...

    http://www.lisisoft.com/imglisi/5/Screensavers/19266LRainforest_screen600.gif
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2010
  21. Naima

    Naima Active Member

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    In Meanwhile here is a First very wip Kapok Giant Tree , the surrounding vegetation is not final and is provisorial , the Kapok tree is still missing tuning like better arrangement of canopy , better optimizations , ivy , relief maps etc....

    but more or less the texture for leaves is done and I think also the trunk now is ok as texture and shape ....

    http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6272/kapoktreetestwip.jpg
     
  22. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    The thin whippy trees around the large ones are typically seedlings of the tropical hardwoods. Without seeing the leaves of them I couldn't make a concrete ID. In South American jungles, young trees that look like that are typically Tropical Cedar, Cinnamonwood, Copalwood, or Mahogany; in Asian ones, look to Teak, Luann, and Durian (actually, check out this site for scientific names of the Asian hardwoods). In the Hawai'i picture, they're palm trunks. In the Costa Rica one, they look very much like Ahuano, which is a type of Mahogany.

    Your tall walking root is typical of many trees that grow in Pantano (swamped) and Flooded rainforest; I've seen Cedron develop these when they grow in swamps, as well as Copal. Mangroves also have these roots.

    Your Kapok giant is looking great; my only advice would be that at that age they have a much more spreading canopy and fewer low branches, more like the one shown in the fourth picture in my series of Kapoks. Also, very little grows on the lower trunks of Kapok trees - they seem to have some kind of inhibitory chemical or hormone that keeps the trunks clean except for the most tenacious of Philodendrons. The upper branches, however, usually develop a coating of bromeliads and orchids.

    And I found a standalone picture of a mature Strangler Fig - farmers here will often leave them and Kapoks standing when they clear land, since both are considered to be "lucky" trees. (And because a mature Strangler Fig produces rather tasty fruit).
     

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  23. Naima

    Naima Active Member

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    Ok , the Kapok I made , the top canopy shape is just provisorial , I arranged fast to see the effect and if the leaves looked well , I want to remake and also reduce the polygon count to have better perfomances , I will spread more the canopy , I was liking this silouette if is ok I will follow this ....


    The Huge Silouette

    http://lh3.ggpht.com/_l--br1jG3MI/R...UIxnyr9aE/2007.8.2.Rio+Purus+to+Anama.009.JPG


    http://www.nybg.org/bsci/belize/Ceiba_pentandra_1.jpg


    Big



    http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/7600794.jpg


    Medium

    http://image14.webshots.com/15/9/99/18/170599918ihjvSE_fs.jpg

    Young

    http://www.scientific-web.com/en/Biology/Plants/Magnoliophyta/images/CeibaPentandra2.jpg


    Btw Any good picture for the rainforest soil ? ( no leaves no plants on )

    Also here is a picture of the trees in Angkhor Vat , the site says it's a Kapok tree but seems to me more something like a strangler fig ... may be a strangler fig over a kapok?

    http://www.worldofstock.com/closeups/TAA1043.php


    http://www.worldofstock.com/closeups/TAA1047.php
     
  24. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Looking good! I'd be more inclined to think that those trees at Ankhor Wat are figs grown over old Kapoks, because they don't exhibit that kind of root system here at all.

    I'm heading downslope into the rainforest probably next weekend, and I'll take you some open soil shots then.
     
  25. Naima

    Naima Active Member

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    wow cool :) any changce for also a decent palm leaves and barks ? : ) Iam struggling to find decent lain direct and large enough palm bark textures and the one I did sucks accoring that I had to handpaint :/ ...

    Something like this size distance for a palm bark , no shadows or highlights , and a top view orf that area size more or less for the terrain , also without shadows or highlights a must , better if with scattered small stones , earth and small debris , nothing big as the larger details like unrotten stuff yet and larger stones will be added after ... I cant thankyou you enough for this : ) I really hope to make a good work and that then u can explore he virtual rainforest :) ...

    http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2700/terrainc.jpg

    thats of course is from another game asset and I cant use :) ... its hard to find good tropical pictures in Europe :) ...
     

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