several citrus

Discussion in 'Citrus' started by beau_123, Jun 25, 2007.

  1. beau_123

    beau_123 Member

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    hello everyone!,
    i'm new to this cite but i have already been helped so much bye all of the posts! well i recently have purchased a blood orange, kumquat and satsuma tree... i also have four meyer lemon sprouts from seeds i planted a month ago. the lemon sprouts are all between 1" and 4", the trees are all about 3-4'. they are all fertile and have the ability to produce fruits with the exception of the lemons of course. my question is... could i graft a blood orange and a satsuma so that they will have both fruits on one tree? also when the lemon trees are older will they be self fertile or must i graft them with a mature lemon or citrus tree to get fruit? and could i use a blood orange, satsuma, or kumquat for that? thanks in advance for all the help!
     
  2. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Location:
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    You can graft most any citrus onto any other citrus you wish. A friend of mine has 50 different citrus varieties that he has grafted onto a single tree, therefore that tree produces 50 types of citrus fruit. Your lemon will be self fertile. - Millet
     
  3. beau_123

    beau_123 Member

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    thanks millet!!
    i wasnt sure because i just couldnt fathom it lol!
    so even kumquats on an orange tree? that sounds crazy!
    thanks again for the help!
     
  4. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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    As Millet said, you can graft many different varieties on the same tree and grafting citrus is easy.

    One thing you may not know, while many citrus seeds are clones of the parent tree and will produce identical fruit, your Meyer lemon is one of the varieties that is not "true". The seedling you have will not be a Meyer-- they may be similar, but there is a very slim chance you will get a really good fruit,

    Skeet
     
  5. beau_123

    beau_123 Member

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    thanks skeet, so you're saying the chances of me actually getting quality fruit is slim?
    how would they not be quality? like size or taste? i didnt know you oculd actually have a bad lemon lol.
     
  6. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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    To be clear the fruit I am talking about is the fruit from the Meyer seedlings. Meyer lemon is believed to be a cross between a true lemon and a sweet orange. If you grow the seedlings until they fruit without grafting, it will probably take 5 to 8 years to get fruit. The fruit will likely be of lower quality-- less flavor, less juice or low productivity as is the nature of almost all fruit grown from seed--there is that rare chance that the fruit will be the next great variety.

    Your seedlings may make a good or at least usable rootstock and you can graft mature wood from a Meyer lemon (or any other citrus) and have fruit in 3-4 years.

    As for bad taste in citrus, I have never tasted it, but the common rootstock --trifoliate or Poncirus-- is said to have a taste you will never want to try again.

    Skeet
     
  7. beau_123

    beau_123 Member

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    oh, well thanks for the input!
    i will end up grafting the meyer lemon in a few years
    thanks for all your help!,
    beau
     
  8. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

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    One thing with seedlings, you never know what you will get. There are some citrus trees grown from seed that have some exceptional qualities. The problem being it may take years and perhaps decades to receive the fruits of your labour (so to speak)
    As mentioned in other threads,the Juanita Tangerine has lived through -17c (0f) freeze and a Croxton Grapefruit which has lived through at least a -10c (12f) both these trees were planted from seed (from store bought fruit) and named after their caretakers. Both have produced exceptional crops of quality fruit. I have heard of a non fruiting grapefruit tree growing outside in Montreal. (I would love a cutting...) Like people, the seeds have their unique qualities (or lack of). Consider it a long term science project. Growing citrus for most of us is for fun and personal enjoyment. :)
    Greg
     
  9. beau_123

    beau_123 Member

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    thanks greg! ive read almost everywhere about how it can take up to 15 years before store bought seeds begin to produce fruit. so, i got along itme ahead of me (:
    -beau
     
  10. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Location:
    San Joaquin Valley, California
    We can whip or tongue graft (branch grafts) most
    any Citrus onto a parent plant that may not be a
    rootstock plant. Such as a Meyer Lemon on its
    own roots and then whip graft Ponderosa, Lisbon
    or Eureka onto the branches of a Meyer Lemon.
    This has been done. We try not to mix and match
    different forms of Citrus too often such as develop
    a Cocktail tree with a Washington Navel, a Moro
    Blood Orange and have a Mexican Lime all on the
    same tree. I can pretty well guarantee the Mexican
    Lime will not have a chance to develop over time
    like the two Oranges will. If we want a variety of
    Citrus to be on one tree we try to keep like forms
    together such as having four forms of Blood Orange
    chip budded onto a parent plant or have four forms
    of Sweet Oranges or have four or more forms of
    Clementine Mandarins patch budded onto a parent
    plant but we do not side graft a Eureka Lemon, a
    Key Lime, a Ruby Red Grapefruit and a seedless
    Valencia Orange all on a Flying Dragon rootstock
    as then we are almost certain to lose one of more
    of the scions in time as some forms will be more
    vigorous from the others and when this happens
    other than light issues, less nutrients and sap flow
    will be directed to the underachieving scions and
    we risk losing them due to tissue breakdown or
    upon a weakening they can become targets for
    insect invasion such as scale (yes, indeed, one
    scion can get hit by let's say Yellow scale and
    the whole rest of the tree will not) and from
    disease pathogens.

    A 50 n 1 tree has several branch or stem
    grafts that are closely monitored and unruly
    vigorous growth pinched back, otherwise
    one graft will eventually "take over" another
    one. The novelty of it is much more appealing
    than the hands on upkeep will be for most people.
    Still, if space constraints are an issue then the
    whole process becomes feasible and enlightening
    but in areas that are not subject to a killing freeze
    however. One good freeze and we can lose a lot
    of our time and effort and end up with a 1 n 1 tree,
    if that, in some locations. I'd go with a semi-dwarf
    tree as my understock just to hedge my bet a little
    against a possible or likely, devastating freeze for
    outdoor container or in ground Citrus if we want
    to have multiple Citrus on one tree.

    Jim
     
  11. beau_123

    beau_123 Member

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    thanks for the indepth response jim!
    -beau
     
  12. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Location:
    San Joaquin Valley, California
    Blood Oranges and Satsumas have been cleft
    grafted onto Lemon rootstock in the past. If
    we want to experiment and have multiple forms
    on one tree it is probably better to raise our own
    rootstock parent just for this purpose. A home
    grown rootstock grown outdoors either in ground
    or grown in a container, in many cases will have
    a better chance to adapt to our climatic and growing
    conditions better than a form that came into us from
    another area and was allowed to grow on before we
    t-budded it. Vigor in the rootstock is a must if we
    want our multiple form plants to grow well. It is
    because of the vigor or lack thereof and the time
    to produce a viable root system that I'd be hesitant
    to use a dwarf form rootstock but would prefer a
    seedling or rooted cutting from a more traditional
    semi-dwarf or even a standard form.

    What you have to do if you want to grow a Blood
    Orange and a Satsuma on a seedling Lemon is
    determine what form of Blood Orange you have
    and is it a dwarf or semi-dwarf form of it. Most
    Satsumas are a semi-dwarf to start with. Even a
    seedless Kishu standard will grow to about the
    size of a semi-dwarf Owari Satsuma in locations
    around here. Many of the Satsumas do have some
    natural dwarfing characteristics to them, same is
    true to a large extent with the Kumquats but not
    all Kumquats as some plants on their own roots
    can be rather large in time, certainly taller but
    not necessarily wider than our 50+ year old Meyer
    Lemon that is on its own roots.

    You can work a Cocktail tree with what you have
    if your Blood Orange has dwarfing characteristics
    in the plant as the Satsuma and the Kumquat should
    be able to co-exist together side grafted or chip
    budded onto a rootstock standard. If you want to
    try some whip grafts later then read up on JoeReal's
    superb propagation tutorials in the Citrus Growers
    Forum. He has taken applied branch grafts beyond
    what most people would even contemplate, although
    others in years past have done it but not to that
    extent! A lot of his success is due to the tree he
    uses as his mother plant, the rootstock parent. It
    is not the 50 varieties that I would have interest
    in because he will get a different "read" from those
    grafts and how they grow than I will get from
    growing the variety as a solitary plant in the
    ground. I'd want a cutting from the rootstock
    instead and grow it on and then take seed from
    the fruit and grow them on and let those seedlings
    be one of my rootstocks for future propagating.

    Jim
     
  13. beau_123

    beau_123 Member

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    thanks again jim, your advice is extremely helpful!
    -beau
     

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