is this a maple????

Discussion in 'Maples' started by bctahitianfruit, Oct 29, 2006.

  1. bctahitianfruit

    bctahitianfruit Active Member

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    a friend had these picture on her blog site and she called it a red sunset maple. but it just doesn't seem "maple " to me.. could some one give us the correct identification please.. latin name would be nice. i can't seem to find it in any of my books.
    thanks in advance.. noni
     

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  2. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hello,

    Looks like Acer rubrum, and there is indeed an A. rubrum 'Red Sunset'. Introduced by Amfac Cole Nurseries in 1966 (Maples for Gardens).

    I'd guess that's the culprit.

    HTH
     
  3. bctahitianfruit

    bctahitianfruit Active Member

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    thanks.. i wasn't sure.. it didn't look like the picture in my book of the A.rubrum.. but hey maybe it is jsut a crappy picture!!lol. thanks again for the quick response!
     
  4. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Cultivar is actually 'Franksred', Red Sunset being a selling name (trademark). To compare yours with that introduction search internet with "franksred" for nicely targeted hits.

    Red maple grows natively from New England to Florida, varies accordlingly but all with have same general appearance. Leaf shapes and sizes vary within parameters of species, fall color can be yellow, orange, red or blends.
     
  5. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hi Ron,

    Just wondering where you have the information that Franksred is the official cultivar name. I glanced in Maples of the World and the Illustrated Guide, I see Franksred listed as a synonym but the primary cultivar listed as Red Sunset.

    Random curiousity :)

    -E
     
  6. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Some authors list all cultivar names (of plants that also have selling names) as synonyms of the selling names. But a trademark is not a cultivar. The tree is 'Franksred', with Red Sunset being a marketing device.

    "Trade marks used in conjunction with, or apparently as cultivar names cause particular problems when assessing which words constitute a cultivar name and which are a marketing device. It seems that trade mark law is regularly misinterpreted when it comes to plants, since a trade mark is a device to identify goods from a particular source and cannot be used to identify a particular plant. However, the way names are presented on labels and in catalogues often leaves this as the only possible interpretation. Care is therefore needed when quoting trade marks alongside plant names. They are best treated as trade designations, i.e. printed in a different typeface but with the appropriate ™ or ® suffix."

    http://www.rhs.org.uk/rhsplantfinder/plantnaming.asp#trade

    For purposes of illustration, a parallel example could be RoundUp herbicide. A solution of glyphosate is sold using the trademark RoundUp:

    RoundUp:Red Sunset

    Glyphosate:'Franksred'

    Other solutions of glyphosate are marketed other under selling names. RoundUp is not the chemical you are buying, glyphosate is. Looked at in the same way, Red Sunset is not the tree, 'Franksred' is.

    Multiple usages of 'Franksred', correctly presented in quote marks (as here) can be found by searching the internet.

    http://www.jfschmidt.com/intros2.html#redsunst
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2006
  7. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Ron, thanks, I understand the distinction. I suppose I'm asking if there's an official register (even if not available online) where these are listed.

    For example, on the page you link campestre "Queen Elizabeth" is given in Maples of the World as cultivar 'Evelyn', but they make no such distinction for Franksred. (Even though clearly Frank selected it.) If there is a place to look beyond the usual maple literature I'd be pleased to know about it.

    Sadly one can find examples of correct as well as incorrect usage on the net, which makes it tricky to site as a source.

    -E
     
  8. bctahitianfruit

    bctahitianfruit Active Member

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    interesting discussion!!. didn' relize it was all so complicated.. may be why we gardeners really shoudl stick to the latin names, at least they are universal.. as to cultivar type the nurserys should specify the cultivar name and forget the marketing names.. if it is a great specimin i am sure we won't really care too much about the marketing name it is only the cultivar and species names weshoudl be concerned with, that way there is no confusion when we recommend a plant to friends~
    interesting reading.. have to look over your links when i have more time..turrah..noni
    by the way the tree i showed is grown in kelowna bc canada.
     
  9. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    "Major wholesale nurseries also are increasingly using trademark (TM) or registered trademark (R) names. In such cases, the usage of the names is legally controlled. Unfortunately, catalogs sometimes list the same name differently: as a cultivar(' '), as a (R), and as a (TM)! I try to use the designation favored by the company that originated the variety in question, or that controls its propagation rights...Usage of trademarks can also vary from state to state. The rapidity with which such names are being changed is a source of confusion and a hotly disputed subject...

    This trend, ballooning since the early 1980s, is maddening but legal. Trademarked names last indefinitely, so a wholesale nursery, by making an obnoxious cultivar name and an attractive trademark name, gains financially: it can demand that other wholesalers or retailers pay a fee if they wish to use the trademark name for sales.

    The recent flood of trademark names has caught academics, the public, and many nurseries off guard. Several tree books published in the 1990s accidentally describe the exact same tree in two places--under its cultivar name and under its trademark name..."

    -- A.L. Jacobson, North American Landscape Trees (Ten Speed Press, 1996)
     

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