What is your soil mix for growing maples in containers?

Discussion in 'Maples' started by agentf1, Aug 15, 2006.

  1. agentf1

    agentf1 Member

    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Phila suburb
    I am currently using a 50/50 mix of half bonsai mix which is fir bark and shale to 50% Miracle Grow Garden soil. It works out perfect and is the perfect balance of draining very nice and holding enough moisture but the fir bark and bonsai mix are very expensive. I am looking for an alternative that I can get locally that is not as expensive. I would also prefer organic materials but and open for all suggestions. I don't think a 50/50 mix of perlite or vermiculite and soil will be nowhere near as nice. What do all of you use? Thanks in advance.
     
  2. uhlawstu1

    uhlawstu1 Member

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    South Central texas
    I'm relatively new to acers, but I've been doing container plants for a while. I've also done lots of research about nursery production in containers and studied bonsai resources that describe container plant culture, and I do have several japanese maples in containers. Before I comment I think a lot of this is personal preference, some people do things differently. But I try to base my approach on what I perceive to be best horticultural practice as described in well regarded texts supported by empirical data.

    The container media my maples (and most of my plants) are in is :

    - 2 parts partially composted pine bark. Not very fine, but finer than most mulch. finest particles are washed out and largest are screened out.
    - 1 1/2 parts horticultural peat
    - 2 parts Turface MVP (Calcined clay - fired at very high temperatures so it does not degrade)
    - 1/2 part coarse perlite
    - 1/2 part grit or espoma soil perfector (whichever I had on hand when i potted the tree)

    I also use osmocote slow realese fertilizer in all mixes - I eyeball it but maybe 2 tbs per cubic foot. This may be controversial, some people get real fired up about NOT fertilizing maples which makes zero sense to me. My preference is to use a very small amount of slow release and frequnetly water with a premium diluted fertilizer. All plants need N-P-K and that is especially true when planted in a container that drains qucikly and contains partially composted material (which requires nitrogen to break down)

    I'm not sure what you mean by preferring organic. My mix is only slightly more organic than inorganic (3 1/2 parts organic to 3 parts mineral). I wouldn't use much more organic material than this for maples or any woody perennial. Why would you prefer organic? Organic material degrades and ultimately impedes aeration and drainage.

    If you're talking about a soil product that is labled "organic", like miracle grow organic garden or potting soil, then you should definitely rethink it. Use that junk in the garden not in a pot, especially one with a beautiful japanese maple tree in it! Not only is that not good plant culture to use that stuff in a container, it smells horrible. it may be ok to put animal feces in the garden, but do you really want that in a pot on your patio?

    I know a common reccomendation is ground fir bark, or other bark based mixes. I've never seen the ground fir bark media, but my intitial reaction is not to use "ground" anything in a potting mix. To me, "ground" sounds like "bunch of fine particles" which will turn into "pot of soupy junk". Pro-mix makes a bark mix and I wouldn't hesitate to give that a try, I believe in their products (except their consumer potting mix which has too much peat)

    There you go my two cents.
     
  3. Rima

    Rima Active Member

    Messages:
    991
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Eastern Canada
    You're really complicating your lives! You just need some coarse (large particle, non peat based) soil - ask at a garden ctre, and some grit (any of these in whatever combo you like - perlite, aquarium gravel, chicken grit from a farm feed store (but not if they use oyster shells instead of granite), crushed lava rock if it's avail. there, 'builder's sand' (coarse gritty stuff usually avail. at const. sites. Mix 1/3 soil to 2/3 inorganic, inert stuff and you'll be fine. Just watch the watering, and light shade is best.
     
  4. agentf1

    agentf1 Member

    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Phila suburb
    Organic was probably a bad word to use. After reading the Bonsai mix I found it was not organic or natural but instead Haydite and Turface. I think I found a place I can order that stuff pretty cheap. I also found a place where I can order fir bark at 23 bucks for a 2 cu ft bag which if I am not mistaking should mix up a pretty large amout of soil. It looked like natural stone so I assumed it was organic like the fir bark. The Miracle Grow Garden soil is nice rich black top soil and does not smell at all. Any potting soil I have found looks like that super light peat stuff which I hate. I have had much better luck growing stuff in the garden soil opposed to potting soil. MG also has a tree blend which I may have to check out again. I did use it once when planting a tree outside and if I remember it seemed blacker and chunkier for what ever that is worth. My only objective is to get a soil mix that drains well and will hold a tree well in its pot. The mix I make up with the fir bark and bonsai mix (Haydite, Sand pebble, Turface and aged pine bark) looks almost identical to the soil the maples and japanes white pines I just bought came in.

    This may be a better question for the conifer section but I will post it here also. Somebody told me that Pine Bark mulch has something in it that is bad for Conifers like Japanese White Pines. Does anybody know if this is true. If so how about for maples? I have a big bag of Pine Bark Mulch I would love to be able to use in my soil mix for the maples, it would save me from buying the Fir Bark mentioned above.

    Thanks for all your advice and help.
     
  5. schusch

    schusch Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Luxembourg
    Pine and fir bark pieces are very good options for the mix. I don't know about Japanese White Pines, but people use pine and fir. You might want to stay away from pieces that are too fine (less than 1/8 inch - dust). You could stay within the 1/8-1/4 inch range (although I use even larger pieces mixed in with more moisture retentive material this year, with good results). So, yes on the pine instead of the fir.
    You might want to consider your climatic conditions, and the age of the tree, when you decide on the specific mix.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2006
  6. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,382
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Southwest France
    I agree!!

    Gomero
     
  7. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,011
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    hehehe
    So do I :)
     
  8. agentf1

    agentf1 Member

    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Phila suburb
    I went with 50% haydite and fir bark and 50% MG potting soil. It seemed to work and drain perfect. Thanks.
     
  9. Layne Uyeno

    Layne Uyeno Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
  10. jumbojimmy

    jumbojimmy Active Member

    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    AUSTRALIA
    I use ordinary potting mix that cost $3. and my maple trees still survive.

    Why complicate yourself? As long as you have good drainage holes, and fertilise it , those trees will survive.
     
  11. Rima

    Rima Active Member

    Messages:
    991
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Eastern Canada
    Maple trees growing in Australia would probably need potting soil to survive your dry conditions! Things are a little different over here where the opposite problem can often do them in.
     
  12. schusch

    schusch Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Luxembourg
    I agree - you cannot generalize, but roots need water and air. If you keep your trees in a soggy mix, they will suffer and die on you. Excess water will suffocate roots. I wouldn't call taking this into account making things too complicated. The same goes for trees planted too deep in the ground - as far as I know optimal conditions (aeration of roots) exist only in the top 15 or so inches of soil, which is one reason why planting too deep is asking for trouble. The pine, and other material, will not break down as quickly, providing better aeration for a longer span of time.
    Some of the material mentioned might have better properties for you, depending, and might also help distribute moisture and air more uniformly.
    As regards surviving, it depends on what one means by that: for how long? is one question I would ask. I've recently seen an 80 year old maple in a pot, but it was - significantly - a bonsai maple tree, where soil considerations are essential.
     
  13. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,011
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Surviving and thriving are very different issues
    Japanese maples need moist well drained conditions
    How you arrive at that will differ from person to person
    Short of laboratory tests and conditions we will all have our favourite mixes which appeal
    I still think that going overboard on a particular mix is complicating life too much
    Moist but well drained and your maples will thrive
     
  14. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,382
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Southwest France
    I visited a good friend who also is a reputed gardener and who lives in zone 7 with much more rainfall than where I live. She is a generalist and not specifically a maple grower. However in her large garden she has about a dozen palmatum and japonicum cultivars half in the ground and half in containers, half in full sun half in partial shade. All of her maples are beautiful at this time of the year, not a single leaf with the tips burned (I cannot say the same!). When I asked her for her potting mix for the maples she told me: just my garden soil (pH slightly acidic) amended with bit of peat and some well composted manure.
    FYI
    Gomero
     

Share This Page