japanese maple.... small, in a pot

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Panda Bear, Aug 6, 2006.

  1. Panda Bear

    Panda Bear Member

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    Hi, everyone,

    Things have been going not too badly with my garden UNTIL the leaves on my Japanese maple started to dry up. This tree was given to me in memory of my Mom who passed away in Dec. '03 so it's important to me to try and 'save' the tree.

    I planted the tree in my garden in Mission when it was safe to do so. It did very nicely. Then we moved to Hope (May '06). I didn't want to leave the tree behind so I put it in a large pot with good soil, rocks in the bottom to keep the roots from getting too wet. Then I put THAT pot into a large, authentic Chinese pot. Again, the tree did very well. In fact, it looked quite stunning in the Chinese pot. The temps. in Hope got really high for a while and one of the nursery folks thought the tree was stressed from the heat. I moved it to a more sheltered spot.

    HOWEVER, for a few weeks prior to the problem, whenever I used the sprinkler on the lawn, excess water accumulated in the Chinese pot. I'm pretty sure this had a LOT to do with the tree losing its leaves...... TOO WET! I did try to pour out the excess water but some always remained behind.

    As per instructions from a local nursery, I repotted the tree with what I thought was good soil and I've been watering/ fertilizing with an organic mixture (also suggested to me by that nursery). Now, ALL of the leaves are off the tree and I'm at my wits end. The tree is NOT in direct sun, it is NOT overwatered but it continues to be just a skeleton of a tree. There appears to be SOME green color when I cut into the branches (No, I've NOT pruned it...). Perhaps all is not lost. Could you please give me some advice?

    Thanks a gazillion. TTFN, Panda Bear
     
  2. Galt

    Galt Active Member

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    I suppose with the information you have provided I would recommend that you discontinue fertilization while maintaining adequate moisture. Provide morning sun and afternoon shade as some sun will help the plant recover. If all of you branches and twigs are still viable you will want to look for budswell where the petioles or leaves used to be attached. This time of year the budswell should come pretty quickly. If this does occur for you the leaves will not be too far behind.

    If you want to comment on the soil you used or the exact specifications of the fertilizer I might be able to share some more thoughts.

    It is not uncommon to hear a shock-reducer recommended at this point in your situation. This could be an excess does of superthrive, B-1 transplant solution (Lilly Miller makes one) and/or some inorganic 0-10-10. All mixed at 1-2 tablespoons per gallon. I use this sort of mix myself but not everyone or many subscribe to the usefulness of it.

    Good Luck.
     
  3. schusch

    schusch Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Just a small issue: the rocks at the bottom of the pot will in all likelihood achieve the opposite of what you want. They act as a 'barrier', rather than a facilitator - the water table rises - the area that remains wet once watering has ceased - thereby making wet feet more likely, not less. It's best to have a uniform mix in your pot.
    Plus your soil might be good, as you say, but it might be inadequate in pots: so say more about what kind of soil you are using. The finer the particles are, the soggier the mix can get in a pot, even if it'd be great soil if found in a garden, or as only part of a mix.
     
  4. Rima

    Rima Active Member

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    I think your tree is staying too wet all around (and do ditch the bottom rocks). There should be small (aquarium) gravel through the soil, plus grit of some kind (even Perlite works) and no peat if you can manage that. Maples need to dry out some between waterings, and be kept out of direct sun, plus yours is obviously wicking water back up through the drain hole and rotting roots.
     
  5. STi

    STi Active Member

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    one of my maples is over watered and it just stopped growing...its drying out now!
     
  6. Panda Bear

    Panda Bear Member

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    japanese maple....in small pot

    Thanks for all of your responses.
    When I repotted my dwarf maple, I removed the rocks, poked holes in the bottom of the plastic pot and tray, inverted the tray and put it into the Chinese pot and placed the plastic pot on top of the inverted tray. My goal was to stop water from collecting in the bottom of the plastic pot. I used quality topsoil and organic fertilizer that a fellow (employed at a well-known nursery) recommended. I put the potted tree in a shaded corner of my north-facing patio. (Oddly enough, the strata folks planted a dwarf maple in our front yard a few months ago. It is totally sandy soil and gets direct, hot sun. IT is thrively very nicely!!)

    When the remaining leaves continued to shrivel and die, I contacted the well-known owner of the well-known nursery (writer, phone-in radio show, public Gardens, etc.) and he said I should have used a 1/3 mix of bark mulch and 1/3 peat. He said that I should NOT prune the tree and that IF there was green showing inside the branches, I MIGHT have a chance at saving the tree.

    Should I repot YET AGAIN? I suppose at this stage I've got nothing to lose because my tree isn't very happy anyway.

    Thanks again. TTFN, Panda Bear
     
  7. globalist1789

    globalist1789 Active Member

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    Re: japanese maple....in small pot

    You wouldn’t be talking about Brian Minter by any chance? That guy’s a wiz so I listen to him closely. The problem with that soil mix you mention is that there is only 2/3 of it. 1/3 bark + 1/3 Peat = 2/3 of a soil mix? Is the missing 3rd perlite by any chance?

    How long ago did you repot it? I would give it more sun even if you leave it in the same soil. If a corner of your deck get morning sun that would be great. If it were my plant I would repot it so that it gets settled in in time for winter. With heavy peat mix you run a greater risk of root rot during our rainy winters.
     
  8. Panda Bear

    Panda Bear Member

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    japanese maple.... in small pot

    Hi, Globalist,

    Yes, Brian was 'the guy'. It was too bad I hadn't spoken to him BEFORE I spoke with one of the employees. Oh well..... Brian didn't tell me what the 'last 1/3' should be. I presumed it was the topsoil I had purchased.

    I can't put the pot in morning sun but it IS exposed to later afternoon sun. I'm going to a local RONA and will buy some bark mulch and the perolite that you mentioned. I'll repot the tree today.

    Thanks for your advice. TTFN, Panda Bear
     
  9. agentf1

    agentf1 Member

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    I put foam shipping peanuts in the bottom of my pots to aid in water drainage. Is this OK or similiar to the rocks would I be better off with nothing in the bottom?
     
  10. schusch

    schusch Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    A uniform mix is best to ensure uniform distribution of water.
    Adding 'alien' material at the bottom mostly raises the water table, since water will stop at the barrier. It flows through (out of the holes at the bottom) as long as the pressure from the additional water you apply keeps coming, but once you stop watering water will settle higher compared to the water table in the same pot, with the same mix, but with no 'alien' material at the bottom.
    So there is no benefit, but a potential disadvantage since the lower part of the rootmass will more likely end up in the wetter area.
    Even in a uniform mix water can be distributed in an uneven fashion, depending on the material that makes up your mix. But this is already a different topic. It helps to test how your mix 'behaves' and test the moisture at various times throughout the year to find out what is going on, whether your mix is any good or not.
    Some threads on this forum discuss the material people are using in their potting soil mixes, and why (pine bark pieces, perlite, lava rocks, ...). MJH has, for instance, a rule of thumb that makes sense: use a better draining, and aerated mix for younger maples to encourage root development (up to 5 years) , and a more moisture retaining mix for older maples. But it all depends on your climate, your habits, the setting, etc The size of your pot matters, too - too big could be a problem especially for younger trees.
     
  11. agentf1

    agentf1 Member

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    Thanks, I did go a little larger on the pot since that is what I had around (I went with 1 1/2 gal size when 1 gal was reccomended) but thought I would compensate by adding the packing peanuts. They were just potted form the 4" pots they came ion into the big pots with Miracle Grow potting soil about 2 weeks ago. I am thinking about picking up some perlite, sand or whatever I can find to mix with the potting soil and repotting them again with the perlite mixxed in with the MG soil and leaving the packing peanuts out. Do you think it is OK to do this this quick after they were just potted or will I stress them too much? I am not sure which is better, the additional stress of being potted again or leaving them in the pot with the poor draining soil and packing peanuts. What are your thoughts? I apologize if I am causing this thread to go off topic...
     
  12. schusch

    schusch Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    It's best to repot dormant trees - in early spring, before budbreak, or if you think your soil is so bad for the plant, in the sense that they are high in moisture retention, low in aeration, then in the fall - but spring is generally considered a bit better for repotting. You could also keep the dormant tree in an unheated garage or basement and regulate the watering to avoid too much moisture over the winter, and repot in the spring.
    Don't think about the peanuts - they are not going to kill the plant. They do no real good, so next time, leave them out. If your tree is fine, leave it alone. If it's healthy it should make it. Just keep in mind adequate watering, so try to find out what your soil is doing. It should be moist (coolish) , not wet.
    Don't use sand in pots : it might be good for drainage but it's generally too fine and will clog pores, reducing aeration. Roots need air to circulate. Think 1/8 - 1/4 inch size pieces plus some moisture retaining maetrial, depending.
    There are some threads here where you'll find good recommendations for younger trees in pots.
    I don't know miracle gro potting soil. generally speaking peat (too wet, or too dry, depending, compaction problems) isn't great : again look for threads about the problems with peat here. No need to overworry - you'll find the right ingredients in time.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2006
  13. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    (Panda Bear, please use Post Reply instead of posting New Threads in response to your query)
     
  14. Panda Bear

    Panda Bear Member

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    Sorry about that. I'm new to this process and thought I had to submit in the 'New Thread' category each time I emailed. Won't happen again. Thanks for letting me know. I appreciate all the responses so far. TTFN, Panda Bear
     
  15. agentf1

    agentf1 Member

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    When you guys say mix bark mulch with your soil, can I use any bark mulch like hardwood bark mulch or pine bark mulch? I have been using fir bark pieces but that is very expensive especially if doing a larger pot.
     
  16. Laurie

    Laurie Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Panda Bear, I think that your maple tree is going to be okay: there should be buds there and new leaves on the way. I know how special memorial trees are, so I want to make another comment. When you said that you "poked holes in the bottom of the plastic pot and tray, inverted the tray and put it into the Chinese pot and placed the plastic pot on top of the inverted tray," you gave me the impression that you are placing a potted maple into a ceramic Chinese pot which does not have any holes in the bottom. If so, you just cannot do that in this climate without taking a great risk, which I do not think that you want to do with a memorial tree. Make a lovely water garden out of the pot, or get some advice on carefully drilling holes in ceramic.
     
  17. Panda Bear

    Panda Bear Member

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    Hi, Laurie,

    Thanks for the suggestion AND the understanding that the tree is very important to me. The tree is planted in a plastic pot which is set inside an authentic Chinese pot (came from China filled with duck eggs embedded in salt). When it gets colder, I put the containers are kept in our garage and the soil of all potted plants/ trees is barely dampto touch.

    I've just repotted AGAIN but used bark mulch, perlite and pea gravel with a teeny bit of topsoil. Little budlets are starting to form and I'm SO EXCITED. TTFN, Panda Bear
     

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