my maples are dieing please help

Discussion in 'Maples' started by dmaaero, May 28, 2006.

  1. dmaaero

    dmaaero Member

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  2. Laurie

    Laurie Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I am no expert, but my first impression is that you have some sort of fungal disease on the leaves. The first thing that I would do is separate all of those pots immediately, as some of these fungal diseases are transported by water splashing and others by poor air circulation. It does not matter if this impression is correct; I would advise this as a precaution as it cannot hurt anything. Move all unaffected specimens far from the others and with more space between them, and then separate the affected specimens with quite a bit of space. Then I would look at the back side of the large leaf in the first picture, see if there are tiny black dots within the brown area, and let us know. The photographs attached give some idea of what is going on, but they do not allow for the viewer to zoom in. Can you take a couple more close-ups of the damaged leaves and stems on the living specimens? My next inclination woud be to gently remove the affected leaves and dispose of them, together with the dead specimens, by burning or in a covered container for removal; do not compost them. However, I would get more photographs first and await another opinion. In the meantime, if they need to be watered, water with a gentle stream at soil level. Is the soil that you are using somewhat sandy and fast-draining? Have they been allowed to dry out at all so as to weaken their response to fungal diseases?
     
  3. dmaaero

    dmaaero Member

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    thank you very much laurie,
    i will get some more pics today with a better camra meanwhile i'll move the affected plants an space out the healthy one's right now! the soil is somewhat sandy an quick draining but (no( they have not had any time to dry out they've been watered on a regular basis i will let them dry out a little i've lost about 40 trees an may just get rid of all the affected ones but i got a feeling when i count the affected ones it'll be another 40 i would like to save them if possible but there seedlings an i dont want to take a chance of my nicer trees getting whatever these seedlings have i'll be back in a few hours with better pics thanks again so much for your help david in nc
     
  4. dmaaero

    dmaaero Member

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    here are some more pics there's allso a link to webshots where you can see larger pics whatever it is seems to be starting at the top of the trees an working it's way down all of my seedling trees are showing signs of this disese 82 of them no signs as of yet on my larger trees i have moved them away from my other trees until i find out what i need to do with them david in nc
    http://community.webshots.com/user/dmaaero
     
  5. Rima

    Rima Active Member

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    If they're just new to you this year, possibly you're unaware that Japanese maples need to be in light shade rather than full sun, and they may just be burning and curling because of that.
     
  6. dmaaero

    dmaaero Member

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    they grew fine in the same location all last summer (morning sun afternoon shade) i saw 3-4 plants had died 6 weeks ago after leafing out fine this spring i thought probly normal to lose a few plants out of 130 but then i went out of town to work for 6 weeks an when i returned this is what i found. my mom takes care of them when i'm away so i'm 100% sure they didn't go without water all the dried up ones were placed in a corner to see if they would come back but i broke some stems an there dead dead dead i sure wish to much sun was my problem but i'm afraid it may be more to it than that thanks for your concern rima ps i did place them in full shade now under a pecan tree if that tells you what i think of the pecan tree david in nc
     
  7. Laurie

    Laurie Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Japanese maples may be troubled by anthracnose, powdery mildew, leaf spot, leaf scorch, root rot, aphids, scales and borers. Anthracnose causes unsightly brown lesions on leaves. http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC1016.htm. Anthracnose occurs in all Acers, usually in wet, warm Spring conditions. The symptoms are various sized reddish-brown to purplish-brown spots on the leaves. Often the entire leaf will subsequently die. Leaves may appear as scorched by heat or frost. Chemical sprays and pruning aid in control. Vertrees, Japanese Maples 2nd Ed. (Timber Press 1987). There are other fungal diseases, which were not listed by Clemson, e.g. botrytis (Too much shade, protection, and humidity on young plants in the nursery can increase the risk of this and other destructive organisms. Vertrees (1987).

    Thanks for the more detailed photographs. Is there any way that you can take some of these samples to your local extension office? You will find the one closest to your home at http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/index.php?page=countycenters. If so, let us know what they find. If you have suffered loss of so many seedlings, hopefully you grew them from seed and will have many more next year. Ask their advice for growing seedlings in close proximity in the humid N.C. springs.
     
  8. dmaaero

    dmaaero Member

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    i took some trees to the extension office today an the young guy said they had anthracnose to spray em with copper solution that's the closest he could come with his book the master gardner didn't know an her computer wasent fast enough to find anything before a older gentleman named moe came in that says there's nothing wrong with these trees there dont have any type disease there suffering from stress ! he said it could be to much water not enough water to cold temps at night to much or not enough sun ect ect he also said the stress could have happened 2 months ago an is just now showing up i ask him about the 50 that died in the last 6 weeks an he said they could have died from root rot he also said they need bigger pots to many roots an they wouldnt grow limbs like there suposed to if the roots weren't able to spread out guess i'll just to keep a close eye on em an see what happens i'll leave em under the pecan tree outa the bright morning sun like rima sugested remove most of the dried up leaves an keep them away from my other plants i think i will go ahead an spray them with copper solution that probly couldnt hurt an if they dont get any worse in a couple weeks i'll repot them thanks for the help an i'm still listening if you got any other sugestions i'd love to hear them david in nc
     
  9. Laurie

    Laurie Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    David, I am sorry that you have yet to find an answer, but at least two of the three in the office tried to help. I am not sure that the third person was doing anything more than firing in the air. If you haven't purchased the copper, hold off on it a bit longer until you know more. If it is anthracnose, my reading a few years ago was that mancozeb was the best chemical. I had anthracnose on one Acer species other than Acer palmatum (Japanese maple), and the next spring I sprayed the emerging leaves as advised. I removed the affected leaves that season, however. Please look to see if there are tiny dots within the brown areas. I have called an office at NCA&T to see if we can get you some further assistance. I will be sending a note to a professor there with a link to this thread, but I was advised by the receptionist to get the name of county office that you went to. Each county extension has a director, and perhaps that person will be able to spend a little bit more time either looking at the specimens or the photographs posted here or both.
     
  10. dmaaero

    dmaaero Member

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    thanks laurie i'll hold off on the copper i have removed most of the damaged leaves but i'll hold on to a few trees with damaged leaves in case someone needs to see them or needs more pics i'm very interested in seeing how these trees react to having the damaged leaves removed hopefully no more damaged leaves will show up i also removed some small growth near the base of the tree cleaned out all last winters leaves an mulch from the pots david in nc
     
  11. schusch

    schusch Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hi, david.

    This looks pretty distressing. Please let us know what the reasons were - I'd like to know about the fungus that attacks these trees, especially how it spreads.
    However, I wouldn't necessarily dismiss what 'Moe, the older gentleman' thinks concerning cultural conditions (over or under watering, and the mix in the pots).

    But if you can please let us know the final verdict.
     
  12. dmaaero

    dmaaero Member

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    so far myself or anyone that has looked at the trees hasen't been able to find any black dots on the back side of any leaves. i went to the new hanover county extension office in nc. today i am going to the pender county office an see if they can help david in nc
     
  13. bmarley5780

    bmarley5780 Member

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    WHAT part of NC??

    Jacksonville here....
     
  14. dmaaero

    dmaaero Member

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    wilmington here
    i took some plants to pender county very profesional man looked at them an decided to send 3 off to ncsu to the man in charge of plant disese be monday before they leave an probly find out whats going on end of next week david
     
  15. Dale B.

    Dale B. Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    What did you use for potting soil when you potted them up last year? I found that if you don't use a very coarse mixture it will break down in less than a year in our heat. I now use 100% pine bark. I noticed that you have them in 3 1/2" pots. It only takes 2 or 3 days for them to dry out to wilting. Four days and they are gone. Use a coarse mixture that drains well and water every day or two. I have a lot of maples in pots and try to water at lease every other day, sometimes every day. It is easy to miss a few when you water and you can catch them before its too late if you water often enough. Trees in small pots are much like bonsai. Read about bonsai care and you will gain insite about keeping trees in small containers. Both soil mixture and watering.

    Turn several of the pots over and lift the pot away. Look at the roots and the soil mixture. You can tell much more by looking at the roots than by looking at the leaves. Do it after you water as well. You may be surprised that you may only be wetting the top 1/2" of the soil and the bottom, where the roots are, is bone dry. Or, that the potting soil has broken down to a gooy mass with no air that stays wet all the time. Maples don't like wet feet.

    Did you fertilize them? Could they be burned? It looks like they have put out a lot of new growth. Some of the time release fertilizers can "dump" when the temp. gets into the high 80s and we have had a few of those days.

    Good luck,

    Dale B.
     
  16. Daniel Otis

    Daniel Otis Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Lots of good suggestions here. I'd guess that the culprit is a soil-borne fungus--the kind of thing that can cause damping off in seedlings. To me, it looks like the leaves aren't getting water, which could mean (a) there was a gap in the watering, but this doesn't seem like it occurred, or (b) they were consistently overwatered, so the roots died. Any chance that your mom was overly diligent? Too much water can lead to fungus problems or drive oxygen from the soil, killing the roots.
    As Dale said, I think you should look at the roots and see if they've turned to mush. I bet they have.
     
  17. Daniel Otis

    Daniel Otis Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Whoops, didn't mean to post that yet.
    Here's what I'd do--a radical approach. I'd wash the soil off the roots, repot in fresh soil, apply a soil fungicide like Captan, keep them in part shade for a week or so to get reestablished, and then move them into the same level of sun in which they grew well last year. At least this will separate the healthy ones from the ones that are bound to die.
    Do let us know what happens sometime.
     
  18. Sally

    Sally Member

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    I think I have the same problem. My trees are all sticky and have scorched brown spots. Mine is about a 35ft tall maple though and has been on this earth alot longer than me. No creepy crawlies are on it really so i have ruled out Aphids but i am clueless as to what is wrong.
     
  19. Layne Uyeno

    Layne Uyeno Active Member 10 Years

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    snip

    Ah. I was thinking this might have been the problem as I read your previous posts. I was going to ask you about your watering schedule. Overwatering/underwatering and underfertilizing/overfertilizing are the two (four?) most common reasons plants die on us.

    As I read further down the thread Moe is most likely correct. All it takes is one day of NOT watering when the maples NEEDED water to cause the problems you are seeing...especially since they are in small, shallow 4" pots which can dry out pretty fast. However, on the other end, they may have been overwatered and this is what I think happened. It's quite possible that your mother "cared" for them too much and watered every day. The symptoms for overwatering and underwatering are the same, however they manifest over different times. Underwatering can dry up the leaves in a day, whereas overwatering will take days, maybe weeks (6 weeks?) before the leaves start to dry up as the feeder roots slowly rot.

    Layne
     
  20. schusch

    schusch Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    That's what I thought as well.
     
  21. dmaaero

    dmaaero Member

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    i haven't heard from the state collage yet i called an the gentleman that sent my trees off is out of town for a workshop an will be back tommorow ! i only lost 2 more trees in the last 10 days an only the leaves are dead the trunk of those 2 trees are still green when i scraped off a little bark so there not completly dead yet we watered as normal late in the afternoon an the following morning we had a hard rain shower so i decided to turn them over and remove the pots much to my surprise i found very dry soil when we water we top the pots off with water usually 1 inch deep in the 4 inch pots that plus a hard rain shower for about a hour an only the top inch of soil is moist this is very hard to belive but its true the bottom soil is bone dry !!!!!!!!!!! i repoted to 1 gallon pots yesterday after finding this dry condition i'm keeping my fingers crossed that they have no disese i'll leave them in the gallon containers till i hear from the college about disese so if they need captan or other treetment i will be able to dip them i heard that if they need treating that they will need to be dipped to get the underside of the leaves so they would need to be in containers to do that as soon as i hear that they have no disese (fingers crossed) there all going in the ground i've had enough of the water problem i'll prepare a 2 foot by 100 foot maple tree bed today to put them in which will include an drip hose covered with pine bark for extended dry spells !!! they defently didn't get over fertiziled because they only got miracle grow once last year an once this year i was told they can have miracle grow every 2 weeks i may not go to that extreme but i will give them a little more fertiziler maby once a month after i get them straightned out i also use potting soil with a sand base so they drain quick (maby to quick) i'm starting to think the only thing wrong with these trees is lack of water soon as i hear from the collage i will post there results thanks to everyone that has tried to help me your help is much appericated david in nc
     
  22. graftedmaplecollector

    graftedmaplecollector Active Member 10 Years

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    I agree with that, I see no evidence of fungus from the photos, but I do see small planting pots that drain too quickly.
     
  23. jimweed

    jimweed Active Member 10 Years

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    Personally I wouldn't leave a Pansey that big in a 4in pot. Should they not be going into a #2 pot? Some of them look pretty big. They are Maple trees and need room to expand there roots. I'm not a nursey grower, but I did take care of plant disease control for Mr. Murray at his nursery in the Southlands of Vancouver, "it will be closing in 15 days forever" and he would have a fit if he seen those in 4in pots. Glad to hear your getting a lab diagnostic test done. Doen't look like any type of disease from the pics, but if your results come back as so, then be careful using copper on the foliage in the summer, you may very well burn the rest of the leaves off. Fall copper treatments are better, and exspecially when your trees are healthy, it will keep them that way. I hope you lose no more of your collection.
     
  24. Layne Uyeno

    Layne Uyeno Active Member 10 Years

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    Hi,

    What does your potting medium consist of? Bone dry peat moss is VERY difficult to moisten. Usually the condition you describe is the opposite. The top is dry and the bottom of the pot is wet. What's happening in your case is the potting soil dried out due to lack of enough water. Now, when you try and water it pools at the top and it looks wet. But, what is happening is the water is being shed by the dry soil (peat?) and runs down the sides of the pot totally bypassing the soil at the bottom. Soak the pots in a shallow tray of water for about 15-30 minutes. This will moisten the bottom soil. One of the tricky things with keeping all those small pots in in flats is that the pots dry out at different rates. Pots on the outside and pots getting the most sun will dry out faster than the pots in the center or getting the least amount of sun.

    When you repot I recommend you stay away from peat moss or use just a little.

    Hope this helps,

    Layne
     
  25. dmaaero

    dmaaero Member

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    well i got some results back today

    test result disease name genus species
    postive gray mold botrytis cinerea
    postive anthracnose colletotrichum gloesporioides

    botrytis blight (gray mold) was indentified on the specimen. remove and destory all badly infected plants and plant parts. this fungus has become resistant to some fungicides. if control is poor change to a fungicide with a different active ingredient since resistant strains of this fungus are fairly common.

    we also found anthracnose (colletotrichum gloeosporioids) on newly expanded leaves. this is contributing to the die back in the terminals. cleary 3336 WP lists activity against both botrytis and colletotrichum on the lable.

    the isolation for phytophthora from the roots was negative and soluble salts were below our range to detect

    i have no idea what 3336 wp is !!!!

    so what do i do get rid of the plants with gray mold ? 47 plants out of 75
    how an when do i treat the rest of the plants for anthracnose ?

    i have repoted to a one gallon size container an in the last few days 25 out of 75 plants have new growth again but all plants with new growth have gray mold no plants without gray mold have new growth (yet) david in nc
     

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