Advice would be appreciated please

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Luke’s Maples, May 26, 2021.

  1. Luke’s Maples

    Luke’s Maples Generous Contributor

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    These two trees were both purchased at the same time, same supplier etc. One is flourishing and the other is dying? Could it have been the frost? They were in similar locations during the frosts we had. I don’t know what to do? Is is salvageable?

    Any help, from any member would bet met with huge lumps of gratitude.
     

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  2. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Good morning Luke, I'm so sorry to see this, but sadly I've seen quite a few like this over the last couple of weeks from friends trees. I also have a couple doing exactly the same. Mine were looking great up until those April frosts, but then they just flopped like your Toyama-nishiki.
    I am holding out hope that a re bud and second flush will bring mine back as I hope yours will. But when they are small, they do struggle to survive after severe frosts.
    I know yours is not a drainage problem, as you are very particular about how you pot them up. So IMO it has suffered as so many have this Spring with the 'constant' hammering of overnight frosts.
    I'm sorry I don't have any good news for you, other than it may well pick up in the next few weeks. Nothing you can do IMO other than just watch and wait and keep it out of the direct sun. It maybe a 50/50 sadly.

    D
     
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  3. Luke’s Maples

    Luke’s Maples Generous Contributor

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    Derek, thanks for taking the time to message me and give me the news I was pretty much expecting. To be honest the Goshiki Shidare is looking so good that I don’t actually feel that disheartened about the Toyama. Obviously I hope it make it but it’s not the end of the work. Question though, at what point do I write it off? If it doesn’t push out a second growth?
     
  4. Contact82

    Contact82 Member

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    I will try to help you giving my opinion. In the pictures it seems that some tips and some buds are black, and maybe there are some black spot on the main trunk (I’m on the tablet and it does’t permit me to enlarge the pictures....). If like this, frost has been crucial and probably that tree already had problems....
     
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  5. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Not sure if you have considered this, but could it be vine weevil grubs eating the roots? Hard to tell in the pictures but have some of those surface roots been stripped of cambium? The only way to know for sure is to bare root the plant with all the potting mix on a tray or similar, inspect the root condition, and go through the mix like a CSI looking for the white grubs.

    With a small potted Acer a couple of grubs can easily denude the whole rootstock of soft roots and root canbium leaving just a woody root skeleton. I know from experience, unfortuately.
     
  6. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Glad to hear your being very down to earth about it Luke, you're sounding more and more like Charlie, Lol.
    Regarding a time frame to write it off or not, then around another month or tbh as it's been a very cold Spring, even into July this year might see it kick back into life.
    But I usually go by the 'six' week rule of thumb. ie for the second flush.

    D
     
  7. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    I use Nematodes every September for my pots M @maf, have you used these? I have found them brilliant at ensuring no Vine Weevil attacks.
     
  8. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    I have used them before, but not for a few years now. Maybe should go back to it. I always worry they haven't been stored correctly prior to buying them meaning you are paying for an expensive load of nothing.
     
  9. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    That's a very good point M, never thought about that tbh. But as I've not had Vine Weevil since using it, I must have been lucky.
     
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  10. Luke’s Maples

    Luke’s Maples Generous Contributor

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    Thanks to you guys who took the time to reply. I’m just at Sainsburys atm, but when I get home and have eaten I will de-pot the Toyama in question and have a good look at what’s going on beneath the surface. I’ll probably post a few pics of my findings. One thing if noticed this year is a lot more leaf damage that appears to be insect related.
     
  11. Luke’s Maples

    Luke’s Maples Generous Contributor

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    There is a ring 10-12mm where looks like the trunk has been stripped. It goes all the way around.

    2nd two pics are of the healthy Goshiki Shidare

    Then next to each other.

    I’m thinking it’s safe to assume death?
     

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  12. Luke’s Maples

    Luke’s Maples Generous Contributor

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    Don’t really know what I’m looking for. The soil has got fine grade potting grit so makes it hard to spot stuff
     

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  13. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Sadly yes Luke.
    But what next to avoid this happening to other trees.!!? I think you are looking at a rodent problem here IMO. You may have to consider chicken wire to circle your trees. Or consider speaking to your landlady re traps.
    Your othet maples should be OK now. But next Winter the problem will raise it's ugly head again.
     
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  14. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Little white curly grubs Luke. I've just expanded the photo and can't see any.
     
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  15. Otto Bjornson

    Otto Bjornson Contributor

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    looking at those grafts, I would say they are only starting their 2nd year after the graft. In my opinion that is much to young to be selling a grafted specimen. Generally one should wait 2 full years after the graft before offering for sale as then the graft is much more stable and ready to be transported to a nursery.
    Year #2 is crucial in the nursery as young grafts are growing and needing plenty of nutrients flowing up from the root stock. Any weakness and unfortunately your photo is the most visible result.
    That one is completely toast, so I would just suggest laying it down with care in the compost bin, sorry but I would not want to give any false hope

    Also, that is a very large pot for such a young graft. A one gallon pot would suit that for at least a couple of years
     
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  16. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    The grubs are white and look like maggots about 1-1.5 cm long. As D notes above more likely to be rodents or some other pest that has taken bark that far above the soil line. Or maybe some physical damage killed the bark? If it is rodents they will have attacked more than one tree.

    I know most will say the tree is already dead, and tbh they are probably right, but I can't resist a lost cause so..... I can see small bumps immediately above the lost bark that may be the beginning of adventitious roots. If it was my tree I would bare root it and plant in new soil very deeply so about 2cm of healthy bark was under the soil line, trim off the damaged stems and stick it in a shady corner and forget about it. Very much a long shot but better than no shot and you have nothing to lose at this point. I know normally never to deeply pot JM's but this is treating the young plant almost like a cutting, and it is possible for roots to grow out from the healthy young bark. I have brought back 2-3 year old seedlings in this way before. Please don't ridicule me for this suggestion - I know it is very unlikely to work and the plant shown is likely too far gone already, but if you want a hundred to one shot here it is.
     
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  17. Luke’s Maples

    Luke’s Maples Generous Contributor

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    We have squirrels everywhere around here. I see one scurry away every time I open the door. I can’t imagine in my wildest dreams that the landlady will let me do anything to deter them. Thanks for taking the the to think about this issue and reply.
     
  18. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    The only problem I ever have with squirrels is them digging in the pots. Loads of them at my parents' house where I keep some of my spare maples and never had any bark damage there.
     
  19. Luke’s Maples

    Luke’s Maples Generous Contributor

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    Yeah I see them digging, rather than eating the bark, but I have heard that they can cause real damage.
     
  20. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Generous Contributor

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    A while back you might recall I posted photos of my larger orange dream that had similar damage to the base of the trunk and to some hefty exposed roots.. I also see squirrels entering the garden but usually they give most attention to old dried fruit off my Olive tree..other potential culprits were rats..a possibility but then I watched a wood pigeon pecking away violently for ages at Ivy right where the tree is..
     
  21. Riverdale27

    Riverdale27 Active Member

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    If only I knew an acer could also get destroyed by a squirrel, maybe I would have been smart enough not to fall in love with these trees...
     
  22. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Generous Contributor

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    ..you just need an effective deterrent..these maincoons are still in training at 14wks
     

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  23. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Looks like the training is going very well indeed R.
     
  24. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Obviously mighty hunters lol.

    Pretty much everyone in EU sells 2 year grafts. They're cheap, but you takes your chances.

    Sorry about the problems Luke. Funnily enough I also have a 2 year Toyama nishiki, that also pooped over like yours. However, I changed the soil upon receiving, your soil is too wet, but I'm not sure I'd transplant now, just keep it in the dry and out of the sun. Pot it back up, and cut back to to clean wood, getting the wilted parts off asap. You're in with a chance, I did mine perhaps 2 weeks ago, there are nice red buds coming out now. Whether it lives (yours or mine) is an open question. Of course in a nursery it would be binned, because no one has time or desire to nurse an already weak plant, which wouldn't be saleable for years if ever. But it may, just, squeak through.
     
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