Which blue bell ?

Discussion in 'Plants: Identification' started by David Tang, Apr 26, 2021.

  1. David Tang

    David Tang Active Member

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    Shot in Garry Point Park, Richmond, this morning.
    Can't distinguish if they are English or Spanish.
    Sorry not able to shoot the anther etc because both
    hands holding the camera prevent me from turning
    the flowers upside down to shoot.
     

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  2. Silver surfer

    Silver surfer Generous Contributor 10 Years

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    I would say these are Hyacinthoides hispanica...common Spanish bluebells..which have flowers all round the stem.
     
  3. David Tang

    David Tang Active Member

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    Thanks a lot. So it's the floral arrangement that matters.
     
  4. Silver surfer

    Silver surfer Generous Contributor 10 Years

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    Hyacinthoides non-scripta It is known in English as the common bluebell or simply bluebell.
    Flowers are on one side only.
    Leaves smaller.
    Also scented.

    Spanish ones flowers right round stem. Not scented.

    There is also a hybrid between the 2.
    Gets very technical.
    Quote www....."Hybrid Bluebell - Hyacinthoides x massartiana
    This cross between our native Bluebell and the introduced Spanish Bluebell has characteristics of both, and is much commoner than the Spanish bluebell, which is rare and over-recorded. It is very variable in the colour of anthers and shape of perianth (flower)."
     
  5. David Tang

    David Tang Active Member

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    I guess mine is Spanish : flowers definitely on more than one side.
    Scent, well, I was wearing mask, the only smell I detected was my
    own fetor oris.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
  6. David Tang

    David Tang Active Member

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    While filing the blue bells fotos, found this one taken in May 2018.
    Looks quite close to blue bells in shape, but it is pink !
    Taken in Terra Nova, Richmond.
     

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  7. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    In his posting at Take a walk on the wild side....., @Ron B said "The hybrid is prevalent on sites where people have been involved, to the extent that I don't know how many "Spanish" bluebells seen outside of its native area really are that species. (In addition to all the "English" bluebells provided by commercial sources that are obviously incorrect)." Ron linked to this page: Hyacinthoides | Pacific Bulb Society, noting in particular: "In these photos a black pot of non-scripta is shown next to a garden plant (probably Hyacinthoides hispanica). Note the drooping curved stems of non-scripta against the stout upright stem, the thin leaves compared with the broad leaves, the shape of the flowers and the way they hang, and the relative sizes of the plants."

    Also from that page: "Hyacinthoides × massartiana is a hybrid of H. hispanica and H. non-scripta and is the common garden 'bluebell'. ... They are available in white, shades of pink and purple and blue."
     
  8. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    The only English bluebells I've ever seen in our region were in the Lake Forest Park (near Seattle) garden of the late J. Flintoff. And were quite apparently different from all others seen here, most of these latter presumably the massartiana hybrid. And Flintoff had to go to a British source in order to get the small set of various different non-scripta cultivars he was growing during what turned out sadly to be his last years.

    Topic of the Week: Scilla ( and Hyacinthoides )

    The tallest and broadest-leaved, H. hispanica has flowers
    scattered around the stem. The smaller, narrower leaved and having narrower
    flowers hanging in one side of the stem, H. nonscripta is less well known in the
    US; it is the famous English blue-bell that forms such enchanting pools of blue
    in copses and roadsides. These two hybridize easily in cultivation and in
    Puget Sound where I live the hybrid, which has been distinguished as H. x
    massartiana in Europe, is vastly more common in gardens than the parental species.


    Scilla--TOW (pacificbulbsociety.org)
     
  9. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2021
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  10. David Tang

    David Tang Active Member

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    Ha ha, pink bells !
    Thanks Ron.
     
  11. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Well, wasn't that a lot of names. Really, anything could have been planted by the park board, and a description like "slightly bluer in color" is not going to be useful to recognize a cultivar. And what about Scilla sibirica, the first one mentioned on that page? That name is new to the discussion. Those flowers are nodding, on one side of the stem, 7-15cm tall. (Scilla bifolia have upright flowers 7-15cm tall; Hyacinthoides non-scripta are nodding, flowers on one side, 30-45cm tall). Info here is from Scilla Varieties (gardenia.net). Hyacinthoides × massartiana is described at Hybrid Bluebell | NatureSpot as drooping (but Hyacinthoides non-scripta, The Bluebell | Easy Wildflowers (wordpress.com) says flowers are held upright and do not droop to one side), more-or-less one-sided, but there is a photo showing flowers around the stem. I'm giving up on finding the height.

    Is this the take-away? Rather than Hyacinthoides hispanica, we are more likely to see the hybrid here, H. x massartiana, which has characteristics that vary.

    I find it confusing to read
    "blue-bells are now widely offered under the generic name Hyacinthoides (previously called Scilla or Endymion ),"
    yet
    "Brian Mathew told me once he considers [Hyacinthoides] part of the genus Scilla, ...".

    Hyacinthoides - Wikipedia says "Hyacinthoides is differentiated from these other genera by the presence of two bracts at the base of each flower, rather than one bract per flower or no bracts in the other genera." I've only found single bracts in the past few days, if I'm looking at the right part.
     
  12. David Tang

    David Tang Active Member

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    Bought my tripod along to get more steady shots.
    They are scattered here and there in Garry Point
    Park, in small clumps. I wish to confirm if they
    are all spaniards !
     

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  13. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    All hybrid H. x massartiana.

    Here's the 'real thing' (H. non-scripta)
     

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