Red laceleaf might be dying help please

Discussion in 'Maples' started by cantrell151, Mar 12, 2006.

  1. cantrell151

    cantrell151 Member

    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Memphis,TN
    About this time last year I transplanted a laceleaf red maple. The tree is between 30 and 40 years old. Last spring there was plenty of new growth all over the tree and it seemed to be doing very well. As the year progressed I realised that my location for the tree was poor.( direct light all day and zero protection from wind) The summer was a little hard on my tree and some of the leaves browned and died just at the beginning of autumn.

    This year it is obvious that 2/3 of the tree is not producing any new growth. Also each of the trees three main branches has peeling bark. There is new growth on one of the main branches.

    There looks to be some life in the non producing branches because the bark in some places has changed to a purple color mixed with the brown grey bark color that is predominate on the tree. Last years growth on the "dead branches of the tree have still not dropped their brown withered leaves.

    I really want to save this tree. Is it too late this year to move the tree to a better location? Would that even help at this point?

    Or should I (sadly) cut off the 2/3 majority of the tree and hope to save the one producing limb?

    Thanks so much for any help you can offer.
     
  2. Rima

    Rima Active Member

    Messages:
    991
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Eastern Canada
    This is not a good time of year to be moving maples, Dec. would have been better. I think you might need to have an expert actually see your tree in person because things don't sound good, but it's hard to diagnose long distance tho' your descriptions are clear.
     
  3. Metro Maples

    Metro Maples Member Maple Society

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Fort Worth Texas
    Leave it alone for now. use potted plants nearby for shade and wind protection.
     
  4. cantrell151

    cantrell151 Member

    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Memphis,TN
    Thanks very much for the replies. I will see if I can find a professional in the area to look in on my tree. Will shading the tree help? I would have to build something to get some shade. The tree is about seven or eight feet tall so potted plants wouldnt work.

    Thanks again

    Chris
     
  5. mjh1676

    mjh1676 Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    562
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Southern Oregon
    The prognosis is not good by your description. If you can post a few photos, we might be able to tell you whether or not it would be worth your time to consult a professional.

    MJH
     
  6. cantrell151

    cantrell151 Member

    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Memphis,TN
    Thanks for the replies. There is definately no growth on 2/3 of the tree. I will try and get some pictures.

    Thanks

    Chris
     
  7. Layne Uyeno

    Layne Uyeno Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Hi,

    I have to agree with Michael. The transplant shock combined with having to adjust to the new location may have been too much for the tree to handle.

    Whenever you move a tree of that size you compromise the root system. You can never get all of the outer feeder roots, if at all, depending on the size of the tree. Even using a tree spade won't help as maples have shallow root systems and even though the tree spade may go deep it can not go wide enough that would be ideal for shallow rooted trees like maples.

    It does sound like the tree is trying to come back. For future reference the ideal time to dig out a large maple is just after it's dropped most or all of its leaves in the fall, but before the ground freezes. A dormant tree doesn't suffer from transplant shock as much. After you plant it in the new location prune it back about a 1/3 to a 1/2 . By pruning back the branches the tree doesn't have as much top growth to feed in the spring and can spend more energy replacing the roots that were cut during the move.

    Hope this helps,

    Layne
     
  8. Dixie

    Dixie Active Member

    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Arkansas, USA
    ideally it would be best to selectively prune out the dead or dying branches, not living tissue, but it doesn't sound like there is much of a selection to prune on. you should never remove more than 1/3 of a tree's canopy. by removing more than that it could possibly be considered topping, which is never good (sorry, i could go on but i won't). do you have a local County Extension Service/Agent that would look for free, I'm sure you do. that is what they are there for. you can even send off a leaf, once it leafs out for a foliar analysis through the service. it is free too!
     
  9. Layne Uyeno

    Layne Uyeno Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Hi Dixie,

    With all due respect I have to disagree with you on this one. When you move a tree of this age and/or size you are essentially pruning the roots. Replanting the tree without pruning back the *living* branches to balance the top with what was lost at the bottom will only result in die back. And in fact, this is exactly what has happened cantrell's tree. The compromised root system couldn't support the branches and leaves and what cantrell is seeing is the tree essentially self pruning. It can not support most of the branches and so stops sending moisture and nutrients to those branches in an effort to save the one main branch it can support...hopefully.

    You and most people who are probably not familiar with bonsai techniques would be shocked to see how drastically they will cut back the roots and branches with the initial potting...and again when they have to root prune in a number of years. I've heard people gasp in awe and shock when watching my father at bonsai demonstrations. Afterwards they care for the tree by keeping it in shade to limit its water needs.

    In cantrell's case timing the move for late fall would've been best. The dormant tree would've experienced less shock. Also, it's water needs would've been much less. Pruning back the branches to keep the top in balance with what root mass was lost, would've minimized or prevented die back and allowed the tree to have the energy to produce new roots without the added stress of trying to feed a full canopy.

    Layne
     
  10. cantrell151

    cantrell151 Member

    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Memphis,TN
    Thanks for the help everyone. I spoke to an agent of my extension service and he recommended that I trim the tree back. Is it too late for the parts of the tree that lack new growth or is it possible they will recover as the roots grow back?
     
  11. oscar

    oscar Active Member

    Messages:
    493
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Surrey, England
    I think its impossible to say, without seeing the plant, lots of pictures would help, the whole tree, close ups of all the branches (a pictures worth a thousand words)
     
  12. Layne Uyeno

    Layne Uyeno Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Hi Chris,

    Oscar is right in that picutres would help. But, I am going to say this without seeing the tree:

    Don't cut it back now. Leave it alone as far as pruning for now. Branches may *look* dead but may not be dead. Same goes for the buds. I have a red seedling that I carelessly neglected when I first got it. I was going to toss it, but kept it. Everywhere there were dead buds TWO new sets of buds appeared the following season.

    Keep it moist during the hot months ahead and don't let it suffer from heat stress. But again, don't overwater it. Water at the root zone but also water beyond it. This will encourage the roots to spread out.

    Don't give any fertilizer with high nitrogen to try and give it a boost. If anything give it some liquid 0-5-5 fert but don't overdo it. Follow the reccomended dosage or 1/2 it.

    http://www.groworganic.com/search.h...&pMode=Search&sText=biolink&sCategory=catalog

    http://www.down-to-earth.com/liq_bloom.html

    The reason for liquid is that it will get down to the roots quicker.

    Maples, as I'm always learning, while delicate are very resilient. Later on you will see which branches really died and can prune those out. Pruning out live branches now that you think might be dead may cause the tree more stress. Let the tree do its own pruning.

    Hope this helps,

    Layne
     
  13. Dixie

    Dixie Active Member

    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Arkansas, USA
    i am glad you utilized your FREE expert advice! they are wonderful at what they do and are usually very helpful. your county extension agent is more adapt to your growing conditions and i would definitely consider his/her advice. no offense layne, but the advice you just gave sounds like what you got on to me about. I said to prune out the dead branches and leave the live tissue. earlier you said to prune it all out, dead or alive. now i am confused.
     
  14. mjh1676

    mjh1676 Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    562
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Southern Oregon
    The parts of the tree that do not leaf out or put out new growth will/are dead/dying. The will not likely recover. As with many plants, maples compartmentalize damage in an effort to support the viable part of the three. It is rare that we see recovery of stressed or dying wood without some wood loss due to dieback or necessary pruning.

    To minimize stress, it sounds best to prune back to either the trunk or the next healthy bud pair on the dying branches. This should actually reduce the stress on the tree and help it direct its energies to the healthy wood and roots.

    The best we hope for in these situation is that we get growht low on the tree so that it can recover with some pleasing form. It will, no doubt, be temporarily disfigured, but give it time. The problem with dissectums that are grafted on taller standards is that it is hard to stimulate growht near the graft union--it just seems to be the case. Trees grafted lower seem to recover better to this sort of pruning/dieback.

    Good luck.
     
  15. Layne Uyeno

    Layne Uyeno Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Hi Dixie,

    No offense taken and sorry for any confusion. Earlier I told Cantrell that for future reference it's best to prune back the tree (live branches) before or right after the move so that the reduced root system doesn't have to try and support a full top.

    But, now that the tree was moved and no pruning was done and the tree is showing signs of stress from the move, reduced root system and the sunnier location Cantrell is seeing die back.

    Now, without having seen pictures of the tree and without knowing how far along the die back is I'm advising that Cantrell not prune back now and let the tree do it's thing. Let the tree decide what branches to lose and which to keep. The reason I'm saying this is because die back is progessive starting at the branch tips and working back toward the main branch or trunk. Sometimes the die back stops mid way along a branch. If Cantrell were to prune off the entire branch now any future tertiary branches are totally lost. I'd prefer to wait for the tree to do its thing, wait for the die back to stop and *then* prune at that point.

    If a live branch that may look dead, a branch that could've produced leaves this season (or even next season) is pruned inadvertently or on purpose it reduces the stressed tree's ability to produce and store nutrients for this season and next season. This is important for a deciduous tree. If this were an evergreen tree pruning out live branches wouldn't be as big a deal.

    I'll also say this. Sometimes a maple will go through such a shock that it will not produce any "replacement" growth that season. The red seedling I mentioned previously was a leafless stick for a whole year. It had lost all its leaves one spring due to water stress and didn't produce any more leaves for a whole year. Where there were dead buds two new sets of buds appeared the next spring.

    Regards,

    Layne
     
  16. Dixie

    Dixie Active Member

    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Arkansas, USA
    thanks layne for the clarification. makes sense.
     

Share This Page