Greetings all, My name is Paul and this is my first thread in this great forum. I have recently learned to love Japanese Maples and have about 14 different plants. I live in Sydney Australia. I will in the near future post pictures of the ones that I have and if possible I'd like to have 2 plants identified as I bought them as bonsai starters from a bonsai shop. They were not given a name. Anyway, not long ago I found a lovely green Japanese maple here at work and I have collected some seeds that had just fallen from the tree. Given the fact that this is the only tree I know of in the area, will the seeds be viable? I mean will they grow? Can the tree fertilise itself? I ask these questions because I wouldn't want to waste my time or resources on a pointless venture. On a different note, over the past year I have managed to strike some cuttings from a green Japanese maple, although my success rate hasn't been that high (10%). I will keep trying to improve that rate! At least some is better than none! I have also recently planted some seeds that I purchased from Kershaw Seeds. I used your forum for hints on how to best grow from seed and we shall see in a few months if anything has become of it. From the Cuttings and seedlings that I manage to grow, I'd like to try my hand at some grafting in the years to come. One more quick question, the advice provided by all in the forum has helped me greatly to date, but I was wondering, are there many members from Australia in this forum that could assist with local advice or insight as to where to obtain good plants? Thanks again for your advice and I look forward to corresponding with you all in the future.
Hi, from the Hunter Valley Hi Keeb, I live not far from Sydney and I am a bit confused with your timing. You wrote that seeds fell of a tree already. But we are in the middle of summer. I would pick seeds from a Japanese maple in June because they have to be stratified for three month. You wrote that you recently planted some seeds (say spring ? ). Japanese maple seeds do not grow here in Australia by just puting them in the ground. Ok, here is want I do: collect your seeds in June, put them in a jar and cover them with hot water overnite. Take the ones which sank to the bottom of the jar the next day, mix them with spagnum moss and put them in a resealable Glad sandwich bag. Put them in the bottom of your fridge for at least 8 weeks before you have a look at them again. Some might have started to germinate. Plant them only 10mm deep in a pot, water well and keep in the sun. regards Wolfgang
Had to stop and really think about this... Australian June = North American December I guess that's right from a seasonal standpoint? Boy, it's a difficult concept for me to get my head around. I suspect you guys might be headed for the beach on Christmas day while I'm shoveling snow off the walk? By the way, Wolfgang, I handle JM seeds pretty much exactly the way you do -- except I ignore mine for more like 11 or 12 weeks, or even longer if need be. I also dampen the media (I just use potting soil mixed with a bit of sand) in the bags to keep the seeds from drying out. I stratify a lot more seeds than what I need and only plant the ones that show visible signs of germination (the little white "tails"). If you're not careful, you can produce a whole forest out a couple of those little baggies :) Bryan
Hi Guys, Thanks for the insight on how you stratify your seeds. I read somewhere that you can plant Japanese Maple seeds any time of the year. After soaking the seeds in warm water for 48 hours I have planted 1/2 the seeds in a clear plastic container which is about 4 inches deep with a lid to retain the moisture and it is stored in the house. I planted the seeds in a mixed of 50% Sand & 50% Coco Peat at a depth of about a 1/4 inch. I read that you keep them at about (20'C) room temperature for about 70 days and them place them in the fridge for 90 days before planting. So that’s what I did this time. I planted the other 1/2 of the seeds in seed raising mixture in a shallow tray in my shade house to let Mother Nature do her thing. If either of these procedures fail I will try your method next time Wolfgang. The seeds cost me < $10 so if I only get half a dozen plants from it, I have not wasted my money. I have not planted the seeds that I collected the other day yet because I'm not sure if they will grow. If anyone has successfully grown from seeds collected from a lone tree could you let me know. Thanks
Hi Paul & Bryan to Paul: I have never heard of a methode of planting seeds after the heat treatment and before the stratification. Let us know if you succeed. Why do you buy JM seeds? Have a walk in the neighborhood. I 'harvest' all those trees close to the road and produce enough understock to keep my grafting hobby alive. to Bryan: Yes we go to the beach around Xmas time. The hot wheather and the hot wind of course make some maples loose their beauty. I have a lineaborum which is absolultly beautiful in spring but almost all shriveled up in summer. But with a bit of rain you get those surprises. A huge dark red new shoot (picture). As for the stratification process. I use spagnum moss. Last year I thought it was a bit dry, so I wet it and ended up with a huge fungus problem. I used peat before but the moss is so much cleaner. If you have say 200 seeds per bag you just go to the fridge every two days ( after 60 days ), empty your bag on a tray and pick all the germinated seeds out for planting. regards Wolfgang
Paul, If you can provide an environment with sufficient light and warmth to nurture your young seedlings, you're right -- you can probably plant seeds about any time you want. In this part of the world it would most likely require a heated greenhouse to stratify seeds in summer to sprout seedlings in the fall and get them through the winter. Mother Nature will do "her thing". It may just take a while longer than you want. Acer Palmatum seeds usually sprout in the second or third winter after they fall. The stratification process does nothing more than speed things up a bit. If you think about it, there aren't very many seeds that get exposed to hot water out in the real world. So, don't throw your second half out if nothing happens in the next twelve months. Your seeds might still be very viable. I have planted seeds from a "lone" green JM before. At least he seemed to be pretty alone. The seedlings did fine. Will your tree produce viable seed? Borrow a sandwich bag from Wolfgang and give it a shot. There's not much to lose. Like Wolfgang, I would be suspicious about seeds collected in the summertime. They may not be mature. I would go back in the fall and collect all that I wanted when the leaves are falling and the wings on the seeds are nice and brown. Bryan
Thanks Guys, I will try the seeds out that I collected and see what happens. I will also make a visit to the 'lone tree' in the fall and try my luck then also. Have you guys done much grafting? I have not tried yet, but am keen to give it a crack. I have a plant grown from a cutting in the garden which it has grown very quickly and is very lanky. 2 days ago I staked the branches straight up and removed all but a few leaves and branches at the very ends. There are three main trunks. One about 4 ft, one at 3 ft and the third is about 2 1/2 ft tall (photo to follow). The tree is less than a year old, but I was thinking about putting it in a pot at the end of winter to be used as my test plant for grafting either this year or the next. What do you reckon? How thick does the plant need to be in order to graft? Is there any special way to graft weeping style? Do you have any step by step detailed pics on how to graft? I am very partial to the weeping and or Dissectum varieties and I have purchased some lovely plants over the past six months. The plants I have in my collection are, 'Dissectum Filigree', 'Dissectum Bronze', 'Dissectum Sekimori', 'Dissectum Palmatifidum', 'Polymorphum'(I hope that is the name for the standard Green Japanese Maple!), 'Atropurpureum', 'Dissectum Seiryu', 'Pigmy Red' and 3 unknowns. As I previously wrote over the w/end I will try to photograph the 3 unknowns in order to seek clarification on the cultivar. One of them is supposed to be 'Atropurpureum', but the leaves are different so I'm not sure. Anyway I hope I have not bored you by listing my collection. All of them except one are planted in the ground and it is good to see new growth on some of them after the recent rain. By the way nice photo Wolfgang. I'll have to learn how to post pics. But first I'll need to get out in the garden and take them. The weather forecast for the w/end sounds promising so we shall see how I go! Anyway, I'll catch you later! Thanks
Hi Paul What kind of soil do you have. You grew a cutting in less than a year to 6 feet hight? The size for understock I use is about 5mm in diameter. but it not time for grafting jet. In the moment it is time ( in Australia ) to shade the maples and get them out of the wind to produce some autumn color. I was successful this year to produce another fresh set of 'spring leafs' after they scorched in the summer heat by defoliating the whole plant. The small 'moonfire' looks absolutely great now. regards Wolfgang
Wolfgang, The tallest is one is 4 ft. It grew very quickly and spindly because I fertilised it when I planted it. It shot up because it is in a sheltered position under 75% shade clothe next to my pond. It gets plenty of water and has a living mulch of mondo grass surrounding the roots. A few of my other cuttings that I struck have also grown very rapidly due to fertilising. I will endeavour to post a picture of them in a couple of days. I personally think they were over fertilised! Although I have had rapid growth they are all fairly spindly and need staking. The quality of soil is unknown, as I have never tested it. I would have to say that it is not overly free draining though. The tallest one may have some of its root in a little sand that I backfilled the ponds edge with. I won't know for sure until I dig it up. The ones I have left are doing fine now however I did have a few plants that were 1 ft tall up and die on me for no apparent reason. The leaves just shrivelled up and then it was all over. I possibly failed to sufficiently condition them to the position they were in at the time of death or it could have been something else. One died so I replaced it with another. Then it died and I replaced it with a third one, which is doing fine. Go figure! Anyway we learn as we go!
Here goes! These pics are of the green maples that I grew from cuttings. The tall one I spoke of is included however the photo isn't great but it is the best I could do. All these plants except pic 4 are from the same batch and I think they are about 8 months old. I stand at 180cm tall and the longest trunk on the tall maple which is hard to make out is the hight of my shoulders.
You always learn new things Paul, I never thought of propagating maples from cuttings. It seems to work all right. If you want to use the plants for grafting you have to prune all the side branches off to promote a bigger trunk. I develop all my understock from seeds and leave them in pots for 2 years before grafting. regards Wolfgang
Wolfgang, My success rate as previously stated isn't real high but I have them on the go all the time. Every time a branch looks straggly or I do any pruning they are used as cuttings. I have old fish tanks in my shade house that I use to grow the cuttings in (mini hot houses). The first pic (thread 11) is of the plant I wish to use as the understock in the future to graft weeping cultivar onto. I have only recently removed all the side branches and leaves of the trunk and already they are budding back. I have also staked the trunks to keep them straight. Has anyone out there grafted a triple trunk maple or should I chop one of before they get too big? I have only ever seen single or double trunk grafted weeping cultivars. I have a crazy thought of grafting 2 or 3 cultivar to the one plant, 1 cultivar on each trunk. I understand in is not usually done. But for the sake of a garden specimen if I could graft 2 or 3 Dissectum cultivar with very similar leaf structure, which has different fall colour it could look quite spectacular. The cultivar would have to look almost identical so that the plant does not look all-wrong. Can anyone out there tell me the names of a few Dissectum cultivar that have almost identical leaf structure but different fall colours that I may be able to get my hands on here in Sydney. Has anyone else out there experimented with something similar? If so, are there pictures?
Keeb, Your thoughts on multiple cultivars grafted on a single rootstock are apparently not that crazy or unique. Pg. 96 of Japanese Maples 3rd Edition: "Other ornamental variations are sometimes made, such as inserting one bud from each of two or three different cultivars into the same understock." This reference comes from a section on chip-budding, though I suspect that multi-cultivar grafting has been purposely executed on numerous occassions. I could imagine certain cultivars -- those typically known for their complemenatary attributes -- might look good together, though I personally have never seen one. BTW, I also found your heat-based stratification method mentioned on page 83 of this same reference. The recap: -- soak seed for 24 - 48 hours in warm water -- store in damp peat or sand mixture at about 21'C (70'F) for about 60 days -- cold treatment (refrigerator) for about 90 days -- results are about the same as the more usual cold stratification method It should be noted that the author also suggests the use of a fugicide (Captan was noted) to protect the seed during the stratification process. Boise has a very arid climate, so fungal infections, mildews and molds aren't something to worry much about here :) Bryan
Heya keebs. I stumbled across your Acer topics and your quest for further knowledge. If you are still keen to learn EVERYTHING about cultivating maples in the Sydney basin then the chap you need to speek to is Max Sims. He's a lovely fella and had an awesome collection when he taught me at Ryde school of Horticulture. Contact Ryde Tafe and they will surely have his contact details. Cheers
Mate thanks for the post. I couldn't honestly contact him out of the blue. But should you cross paths again please let him know about this forum or the forum in Australia at http://www.maplesxmail.com/mapletalk/index.php? It would be greatly appreciated. Local knowledge would always help. If you have his email maybe you could cut and paste the post and send it to him. Anyway thanks.
I totally agree! Max SIMS taught me at Ryde TAFE in New South Wales in the early 90's and instilled in me a love of maples, particularly palmatum cultivars. The man is lovely and an absolute wealth of knowledge and experience. I have now moved to Western Australia and had to give up my Maple collection due to quarrantine laws and wish I knew how to contact him for advice with Maples in this totally different climate!
Hello Dwells, The best approach is to get in touch or better still, get involved with Aust institute of Horticulture West Oz council. www.aih.org.au They'll point you in the right direction. Regards Jonathan
