What to do about this Shaina

Discussion in 'Maples' started by kaydye, Apr 19, 2008.

  1. kaydye

    kaydye Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Location:
    Live in Mapleton, Illinois, zone 5
    In 2005 I got an A. palm. 'Shaina' and planted it outside. It has done well, except the hard freeze many of us had in the U.S. almost did it in. It did make a great comeback and I was hopeful that it would do fine this year. Now, I take some protection measures in my part of the world (spray with WiltPruf and wrap with floating row cover), but we had a great, winter with lots of snow. When I unwrapped Shaina this spring it had healthy looking buds, but the plant seems wobbly in the ground, like the roots are not securely in the ground or something is wrong. I can't tell if there has been any mole or vole damage around it, but it definitely doesn't seem right. My question: Should I take it out and examine the roots? (the buds have not broken yet) or leave it alone? I was thinking about taking it out and putting it in a container if the roots looked damaged. Does that sound like the best thing to do? Thanks for any suggestions.
    Kay Dye
     
  2. Worthy42

    Worthy42 Active Member

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    My suggestion would be to leave it alone (assuming you are happy with the location). There may not be a problem at all, but you could make one for yourself by removing the tree from the ground. I would keep an eye on it and if it still seems unstable in the early fall, or develops other symptoms in the interim, reconsider your options then.

    In my opinion, Shaina can be a bit tempermental - I wish you much success with your tree.
     
  3. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    If your tree is loose in the ground then there will be air pockets around the roots which should be removed by packing the soil back around the roots with your heel. Make sure not to cause too much root damage in doing this
    I had the same problem with an Asahi Zuru. I 'heeled' it down and firmed the soil and then secured it with a length of rope to a neighbouring tree until it had stabilised. It is now as steady as a rock and leafing out well
     
  4. katsura

    katsura Active Member 10 Years

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    Your Shaina could be top heavy which accounts for the wobble. I have a 7 ft tall &
    wide globe-shaped Shaina in a half wine barrel and it is staked because it is wobbly
    because its top is too heavy for its root structure. I am told witches brooms can be
    that way. Mine has been in the barrel for years and is happy as can be.
    I also agree whole heartedly with the good advice in the above 2 posts.
    Good luck!
     
  5. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Probably too top heavy for root structure in nearly all instances = rootbound.
     
  6. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    A three year planted tree that has done well for years is unlikely to be rootbound
     
  7. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    I've had a rootbound shrub fall over after about 25 years.
     
  8. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Kay Dye,
    If I had the same situation as you describe, and taking into account it has not budded yet, I would definitely check out the roots, no hesitation.

    Gomero
     
  9. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Well I suppose I have to concede that Ron :)
    I suppose anything is possible, even if it seems unlikely
    That being so, Gomero's suggestion may well be worth investigation, and you and he will be elevated to the top of the class if you are correct :)
     
  10. kaydye

    kaydye Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Thanks for the suggestions. Since I have just taken the cover off, I think I will watch it for awhile and not do anything. I do have it staked and when I looked at it yesterday, it didn't seem as wobbly as before. It's too small to be top heavy, but I can see where that could be a problem down the road.
    Kay Dye
     
  11. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Rootbound stock is very common. Although new roots grow away from the center of the plant once released from the container at planting out mature, hardened roots remain in position. J-rooted, kinked or bound roots stay as they are if not corrected at planting, may produce a constriction as they thicken over time, even resulting in the tree or shrub eventually girdling itself. Otherwise, it may just topple over on its inadequate anchorage. So rather than being a short-term problem unlikely to persist long after planting out root deformities are in fact the exact opposite, a time bomb that may destroy a specimen so affected many years into the future.
     
  12. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Rootbound or not enough root system to hold
    the tree firmly in the ground. Too much top
    growth and not enough root system is the
    more likely scenario. Yes, packing the soil
    down can help in some instances, depending
    on our soil type. Still, the culprit seems to be
    that the roots are the problem here. Either
    take the tree out of the ground and when you
    do you should prune back the top of the tree
    a little before placing it back into the ground
    or placing it in a container or leave it right where
    the tree is, pack down the soil to help lesson
    the wobble, stake it if need be to help hold it
    and then prune the top back a little hoping to
    induce root growth after you get some new
    growth showing on your tree. Another issue
    is that freeze injured roots can also cause
    the wobble in that surface roots have been
    injured and are starting to break down. If
    this is the case then you will want to prune
    this tree no matter whether you leave it where
    it is or lift it out of the ground to place it in a
    container. Shaina, which is already a weakened
    tree to some people by virtue of how it came
    about, are notorious for having sparse root
    systems anyway in most areas, even more
    so when on their own roots, whether in ground
    or grown on in containers.

    You should take immediate counter measures
    to help save, for the long term, this tree rather
    soon. I don't care what or how good the top
    growth may look like, the feet are your nemesis
    to work on with this tree. If you prune or severely
    cut the roots at any time you should prune the top
    back commiserate with the amount of root volume
    you take off. I’ve seen Shaina sheared in Oregon
    in the Spring after leaf out and before the second
    flush of new growth just to force new root growth
    after a harsh Winter or prolonged spell of freezing
    soil temperatures.

    I read your latest post Ron after writing this and
    know what you are saying.

    Jim
     
  13. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    I'd expect root deformities due to confinement in a container to be much more likely than a plant "overgrowing" and unbalancing itself. This particular item will be likely to have been grafted, it has seemed to me stock earmarked for use as rootstock may be even more likely to be "stored" in small pots and allowed to develop terrible roots than with container-grown plants in general. Perhaps it is somewhat better with Japanese maple production but most small grafted conifers inspected at outlets here are trapped on very apparent corkscrew etc. roots - explaining why quite a few of them arrive at garden centers with stakes even though they are supposed to be finished products.

    I wouldn't cut the top back as this would reduce subsequent root growth - a move in the wrong direction.
     
  14. xman

    xman Active Member

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    Hi,

    I have had many first hand experience of what Ron B is talking about. I always bare root repot the trees when I first get them just to get a handle on the condition of their root system. 9 times out of 10 the trees have shown a root system that is all tangled up and girdled from being in small containers way past the ideal time. I had a 5 gallon autumn moon shipped to me with the container and soil, and when I bare root repotted this in early spring the root ball was all tangled up and compressed to the 4" container size, in fact the root ball had formed a hard mass in the shape of the 4" container. I had to downsize this tree to a 2 gallon.

    xman
     
  15. yweride

    yweride Active Member 10 Years

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    Since Shaina originated as a witches broom you can expect these brooms to have a much smaller root mass to shoot ratio. I have seen a 7 foot diameter Little Gem with a root ball small enought to fit a 3 galon pot.
     
  16. kaydye

    kaydye Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Location:
    Live in Mapleton, Illinois, zone 5
    I finally got out and really checked my A. palm. 'Shaina' and I think that moles had gotten under the root system and that was why it seemed loose in the ground. I have decided to leave it in the ground. I did carefully press down the soil around the roots. It did have some dieback over the winter, but all in all looks pretty good. Once it gets going I will cut back the dead and hopefully it will do fine. It's good to know all the info. from the posts as far as becomming topheavy, etc. Might be good to keep an eye on that as it ages (IF it ages:)
    Kay Dye
     

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