Anthurium pseudospectabile Croat

Discussion in 'Araceae' started by photopro, Apr 4, 2008.

  1. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    I'm curious if any of the aroid growers on UBC grow Anthurium pseudospectabile Croat? And that is pronounced spec-TAB-alie. Although very similar in appearance to Anthurium spectabile, this species has leaves that are somewhat different. If you grow it, I'd like to know how much success you've had pollinating the plant's spadix, the size of your plant, and any photos you might have.

    I'm working on a new webpage for my website with this species but am in need of photos of a fully grown specimen. Dr. Croat, who discovered and described the species to science, has advised he knows of none in the United States.

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2008
  2. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    That's in the Mindo cloud forests - next time I'm there I'll pick up a specimen.
     
  3. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting! I've been trading email with Dr. Croat for a couple of weeks on Anthurium pseudospecatabile and he says it is only found in Panama and only in a very small range. Certainly, it is possible someone took a plant to Ecuador and set it free so I'd love to see the photo.

    Dr. Croat has explained this is a pretty rare plant and I'd love to find a photo of a full grown specimen. I have been searching for a specimen for some months and finally located one for sale in Florida. The thing arrived day before yesterday and I haven't been able to get a good photo of it yet. When it arrived it had 6 spathe and spadices growing and one leaf measured 3.5 feet (over 105cm). The leaves can either have no lobes at all at the top of the leaf or fairly large lobes and the thing has lots of lateral leaf veins down the length of the blades.

    I am still working on my webpage for the species, but Dr. Croat was kind enough to furnish a copy of his description of the species. Compare this to the plant in the Mindo cloud forest and let me know what you find. You can see a few photos here: http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Anthurium pseudospectabile pc.html

    The thing I'm finding strange is how many websites are calling the plant Anthurium pseudospectabilis (not pseudospectabile). As soon as I found those posted I checked Tom's scientific description of the plant and no such name can be found in the paper. I think what has happened is someone tried to use the name pseudospactibilis which is used for other plants, but not this genus. I found Penstemon pseudospectabilis, Guzmania pseudospectabilis and a few others. But this one is scientifically Anthurium pseudospectabile.

    If you can get a photo of a grown or nearly grown specimen, please post it!
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2008
  4. stone jaguar

    stone jaguar Member

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    Steve:

    There used to be a very large specimen at Atlanta whose image has been posted all over the web. Neil Carroll also has it on TAP. I know that he has also seen the species in the wild at Fortuna.

    My take on plants in the 'States that I have handled in the past is that they were hybrids. In particular, I note that their petioles were somewhat blocky in cross-section, while wildings are distinctly terete. Perhaps the Rotolantes have some purebloods amongst their stable of birdsnests?

    Lorax: I can assure you that you have NOT seen this species in Ecuador. It is a microendemic from extreme western Panamá. I have observed all four of the closely-related species of this group in the wild (spectabile in CRica, pseudospectabile, nervatum and colonicum in Panamá)...none of this sub-sub-subsection of Pachyneurium occur down you way, I'm afraid. There are, however, some other epiphytic aroids in your area that look vaguely similar...

    Cheerio,

    J
     
  5. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Jay. I was very curious about the petioles since mine has moderately quadrangular petioles. I sent photos to Dr. Croat and he said both forms are possible although the vast majority of wild specimens have a moderately terete (round but slightly flattened) petiole. He's seen photos of my plant's leaves, petioles, spathe and other parts and appears to believe mine is the real thing. But your information is dead on accurate with his published description of the species.

    I'll send Neil a note right away and ask for a copy of this photo! Thanks for the lead.

    I've got a guy coming this week to hang my plant from the ceiling of the atrium. I've got it in a large wooden orchid basket packed with sphagnum moss that is kept very wet. Up near the ceiling it will be able to gather a bit more light and have room for the large leaves to hang pendently. Right now, the largest leaf is right at one meter (3 feet long). The silly thing had 6 spadices when it arrived and one was broken, so we removed it. The other 5 are in various stages of development but seeds appear to be growing on several. I'm anxious to try to follow the plant and photograph it as it grows. As soon as the plant is hung I'll try to get a descent photo showing the size and post it.

    Thanks for your input! You do know your stuff and I always appreciate the input.
     
  6. stone jaguar

    stone jaguar Member

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    Good luck with your plant. My experience with wildings of this species is that their petioles were def. round in cross-section, and that the leaves tend to be visibly pendent from the stem, whereas the other three spp. distinctly go "up and away" before dangling, if you know what I mean.

    A lot of the pseudos in SoFlo sprung from Dewey Fisk's mother plants (origin ??)...I know for sure that there were some propagates disseminated there from that had not been hand-pollinated by neither he nor Ralph Lyman...Dewey has a LOT of Pachys in 1999 when I was first there and saw fruit ripening on his pseudos. Many folks never really saw the diff between this and spectabile, which was readily available in the nursery trade in the mid-nineties, so there was certainly some hybridizing done between the two.

    As for size, I would say that it's a tossup between this and some Peruvian pendulifolium for who has the longer leaf. I have seen both with leaves well in excess of 2.25 m (leaf lamina only).

    J
     
  7. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Thanks again Jay. Dr. Croat said in his published description the petiole should be slightly less than terete but this is likely a species with some variance. The one I have is the first one I've ever seen in person and Tom seemed surprised I even found one.

    We're going up to MOBOT in June and he says he will show me his specimen at that time. Apparently the folks in the garden haven't been taking super good care of the plant since he sent me a note saying it didn't look like it should, whatever that means!

    I just went out and examined my plant and I have petioles that are almost terete and others that are somewhat quadrangular with one side concave. I'm going to try to get a good photo of a cross section of the petiole so Tom can see it clearly. If I manage to get, I'll post it here as well with his response.

    One thing I noticed on one of Neil's photos I just found. His photo is of a plant that has no lobes at all at the top of the blade. Since he knows what he is talking about I'm certain he is correct. But I checked the photos Tom posted on TROPICOS of a dried specimen and there are distinctive lobes on the blade. It is beginning to appear to my untrained eye the species has at least a bit of variation.

    My plant was grown by a biologist who appears to know what he is doing near West Palm Beach. He says the berries are orange just as Tom described. But I do know it is certainly possible in a large collection of similar species such as Dewey had that natural pollinators could easily cross breed anything!

    Thanks again!
     
  8. gypsytropicals

    gypsytropicals Active Member

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    Hi Steve,

    I have both A. spectabile and A. pseudospectabile growing.

    The Spectabile definitely have a square petiole, and this makes for a quick way to tell between the two species.

    The Pseudos we have are seedlings that we grew from seed collected off of a mature plant a friend had collected in Panama several years ago.
    When I visited the seed producing plant, I noted the terete petioles.

    If you still need images, let me know. I going to be visiting next month and can get you a couple of pictures of the specimen then, if you want.

    Windy
     
  9. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    You know I always love to have your images Windy! Please send anything you think may be useful.

    Dr. Croat pointed out in a personal email that it is also possible for Anthurium pseudospectabile to have the quadrangular petioles but not as prominent as Anthurium spectabile. My big Anthurium pseudospectabile has a few petioles of each type which was at first very confusing until Tom clarified the situation.

    Did you get the little Anthurium?
     
  10. gypsytropicals

    gypsytropicals Active Member

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    Steve,

    As Jay has pointed out, I have always thought Anthurium pseudospecabile has a roundish 'terete' petiole, without any ridges.

    I have several Anthurium plants that were sold to me over the years as A. peusospectabile, and always thought they were all A. spectabile, due to their square petiole. Are you sure your new plant isn't Spectabile? Was it collected in Panama?

    I have a good size plant of A. colonicum and it is very similar to these two Anthuriums in question, but maybe not as pendulous.
    I also have images of A. nervatum (a plant I am seeking for our collection) and it also resembles these species, as Jay has mentioned.

    I now am very anxcious to revisit this older collected Pseudospectabile again next month. I remember it's seeds were a bright and strong, orange color.

    I did receive the cut of Anthurium stem, and currently have it in a humidity chamber nestled in some NZ moss to get it going. Thank you for that!

    Windy
     
  11. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Glad the little Anthurium got there OK.

    I sent Dr. Croat photos of the plant's petioles, leaves and a bunch of other parts including the spadices. He confirmed it was Anthurium pseudospectabile. The plant was grown in Florida from seed but I'm not sure where the seed was obtained. I specifically asked Tom about the petioles since the plant has both terete and somewhat quadrangular petioles. (for those of you reading this not familiar with the botanical terms, terete is round and quadrangular is square with or without ridges on the edge, my plant has no ridges on the edge) Tom said he has seen the species with both and assured me the plant is Anthurium pseudospectabile. The leaves are somewhat grayish and have a wavy edge which is supposed to be a characteristic of the species. My large Anthurium spectabile which is hanging next to this plant does not have the wavy edges nor the grayish appearance. However, due to concerns reported here that my plant may not be the species I have again asked Dr. Croat to review my photographs. I will report his opinion once I receive it.

    I have a spathe right now on my Anthurium spectabile and it is quite different from the 5 spathe and spadices on this plant. My understanding from Tom is this one is apparently variable as well. Once I am able to get a better photo of the entire plant I'm going to send it to Tom once again just to make sure.

    I just copied the link and put it here to make it easy: http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Anthurium pseudospectabile pc.html

    The box it is hanging in is 12 inches (30cm) square for reference. And the leaves are a perfect match to Tom's dried specimen photo on TROPICOS.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 17, 2008
  12. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    I just had a lengthy conversation with Anthurium expert Neil Carrol. And boy did I learn some new things!

    First, the plant in the photo above is almost certainly a hybrid as several of you suspected. Neil gave me a list of reasons why it isn't the true species and I will certainly accept his opinion. As a result, I'll be working on the webpage again to explain what Neil just explained to me both on the phone and in writing.

    Second, the name is not pronounced the way I had always assumed, The name of this plant is pseudo-SPEC-tabile. And the tabile isn't pronounced as I thought. It is TAB-aleee.

    I have a REAL one on the way from Neil and will photograph it as soon as it arrives. And this one was legally collected in Panama.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2008
  13. stone jaguar

    stone jaguar Member

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    Steve:

    I'm glad to see that you took Neil's determination at face value. I agree that the plant depicted has a strong showing of spectabile genes and, frankly, looks nothing like wild pseudos from Fortuna. As I have mentioned several times before, anthuriums bred in SoFlo tend, IMO, to be hybrid dregs rather than the Real McCoy. While I know that there are people in the 'States who do take care to hand-pollinate their plants under controlled conditions a quick perusal of many greenhouse/shadehouse ranges there would, between no-name/?? origin plants from the Portillas and absent-daddy-hybrids, have anyone scratching their head in bewilderment. Over the course of the past decade I have slowly but surely purged my own collection of CB plants originating from seed-grown plants in the 'States...I do still have a few divisions of wildings, but even those are now mercifully few and far between. Obviously, I have the luxury of accessing WC material from a number of origins that others do not have, but the underlying need for this stems not from an interest to collect but, rather, that I have LONG since grown tired of trying to match a name from a Stateside origin plant with a diagnosis/description.

    The proper pronunciation of Latin binomials is perhaps closest to "clean" classic Spanish - see the end pages of Graf's books ("Exotica" and "Tropica") for more on this. The "-ile" termination is indeed pronounced ee-lee or ih-lee.

    Cheerio,

    Jay
     
  14. gypsytropicals

    gypsytropicals Active Member

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    Hi Steve,

    Thanks for that correction.

    I checked with the person who collected the A. peudospectabile, that our seed came from, and he told me it was "collected in Panama, Chiriqui Province, near the Continental Divide, on the Fortuna Dam Rd., elevation about 1200m."

    I'm trying to locate an image of this plant in my photo file and will send it long once I find it.

    Oh, also, Thank you to Jay V for the correct pronunciation. I have often felt like I had a mouth full of marbles when trying to pronounce this species.

    Windy
     
  15. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Thanks to both of you. I sent Neil an email about 10 days ago and he has been away so just called me today. We talked for a long time and he sent me two photos of wild plants in Panama. I always take Dr. Croat at his word and don't make it a policy to argue when he gives me information or an opinion, but Neil was very convincing. Even more, his photos are very convincing.

    He tells me I will have a wild collected specimen in about a week so I'll get a photo posted as soon as possible. In the meantime I've put a disclaimer on the website page. Neil sent a long email and I'll be using material from his mail to fill in the gaps on the page.

    The plant in Neil's photo is growing on a rock cliff up in the general area where the spcies in found in Panama but just outside the park.
     

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  16. bihai

    bihai Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Anyone up for reviving this thread? I am growing both of these in 2019
     
  17. Tom Hulse

    Tom Hulse Active Member 10 Years

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    Yes!! Definitely. How about some (lots of) pics? :)
     
  18. bihai

    bihai Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I have a few LOL. I'll post.
     
  19. bihai

    bihai Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    These are some of my photos of my Pseudospectabiles. I have a few. I bought the original plant from Natural Selections Exotics 10+ years ago. But this plant got neglected for a while and I reclaimed it last August 2018, divided it, and now have a few. All are doing really well. I am growing them as epiphytes. in moss markets, in baskets with orchid bark chunky mix, and I have one mounted. A coulee are getting fairly large.
     

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  20. bihai

    bihai Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Sometimes I wonder though. This plant also looks a lot like A. nervatum
     
  21. Tom Hulse

    Tom Hulse Active Member 10 Years

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    Wow, beautiful plant, I'm jealous! :) I have to agree with your doubt about which species it is. My understanding is the the petioles on A. Pseudospectabile are much more pendant than you show here, especially with leaves that large. Also, the width-to-length ratio of the leaves seems just too wide compared all the (trustworthy) photos I've seen. I'm certainly no expert, but it does seem to stretch too far away from Pseudospectabile.

    Some possible alternates to consider:
    - My vote would be A. nervatum, like you proposed. Take a look at the light green veins in your third photo, and compare to the dead ringer grown by Windy Aubrey.
    - If you determine the initial label was wrong at the time it was sold to you, then of course a very high chance it could be a random hybrid. Many, many of those floating around. For instance the first photo on Steve's Pseudospectabile page is a similar hybrid.
    - A lot of other similar species floating around out there. For instance A. alluriquinense, or A. elisalevyae (photo in this article).

    I imagine there's not much to say definitively unless you were able to get an inflorescence and key it out.
     
  22. bihai

    bihai Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I have had inflow before. I will have to see if any have one now.
    On the other hand, this is the plant that was sold to me as Anthurium SPECTABILE about the same time by the same place. I actually think that this looks more like Pseudospectabile, and so so its inflo and fruit. My mother plants are 2 very large ones in a 35 gal container with leaves 4+ ft long. I have raised many seedlings from these 2 plants so I have smaller ones as well. This to me more resembles A. pseudospectabile, with more narrow leaves and the auricular space is more rounded and the 'ears' do not protrude.
     

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  23. Tom Hulse

    Tom Hulse Active Member 10 Years

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    Those leaves do look very similar to Steve's A. spectabile, including the reduced ears. And you've got the correct orange fruit developing. This one also has very upright petioles, which I would think rules out A. pseudospectabile. Also the leaves perhaps seem still too wide to be A. pseudospectabile, for that length. If it was mine (!), I would be fairly confident the tag is correct.
     
  24. bihai

    bihai Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I have networked with some other folks and they do believe that this is Spectabile. The other one, is NOT Pseudospec. I was told it might be Anthurium panamense. Probably not A. nervatum due to wrong color of the spathe and spadix. The other one could also be a hybrid. I don;t know, I guess it does;t matter, I love the plant and its cool so if I don;t know exactly what it is, I guess that's ok. What else do you grow?
     
  25. Tom Hulse

    Tom Hulse Active Member 10 Years

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    Cool, so did you find some photos of the spathe & spadix of the other one then?
    Here's just a couple representative photos of plants I grow. Alocasia longiloba 'Purple Prince', A. x 'Calidora', Nepenthes 'Lady Luck', Aristolochia gigantea (gotta love a plant with 12" blooms in a 4" pot!), Brugmansia 'Isabella', Epiphyllum, Brugmansia arborea, Freycinetia cumingiana.

    Outdoors, I grow a lot of peonies (I believe I may have the tallest in N. America at 11' high), fragrant shrubs like Daphne, Wisteria, giant-leafed weeds like Petasites, lots of evergreens, temperate ferns, Paulownia, etc.
     

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