Tiny webs on indoor Lisbon lemon tree

Discussion in 'Citrus' started by WoodlandJennifer, Nov 25, 2007.

  1. WoodlandJennifer

    WoodlandJennifer Member

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    My potted Lisbon lemon has many tiny webs in the branches and it seems as if the underneath of leaves are infested with something whitish. NOT mealy bug. Tops of leaves are looking as if they were sucked from underneath.

    Also, when I put water in the container, after a short while the large saucer fills up. It looks as if the roots didn't absorb much.

    MANY leaves have dropped off since I brought the plant inside, and still dropping. They seem to curl up at the sides a little, looking very dry. I haven't figured out how to post a photo on here yet, shall work on it.

    What solution of Epson salts would I use for a container?

    THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP. Jennifer
     
  2. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    Webbing usually indicates presence of spider mites. Not sure about the whitish bugs but some species of scale are that color. Both can be treated with insecticidal soap.

    As for the watering, might you be over-watering or that the soil was overly dry to start with (making it more difficult to rehydrate)? The saucer filling up may not be a bad sign; it is often suggested that one water so that the excess drains out at the bottom. Just make sure the tree is not allowed to sit in that dish of water afterwards.

    Leaf drop may be the result of a number of things including not gradually acclimatizing the tree to its new environment or exposure to low temperatures or frost. The bugs are likely a contributing factor. Is the tree exposed to drafts, perhaps from heating vents? Or it could be a combination of light, temperature, and humidity levels. A more detailed description of the growing environment and circumstances would help.
     
  3. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Unless your tree shows symptoms of a magnesium deficiency, I would be careful about adding Epson Salts. Adding this and that to a plant (especially a containerized plant) usually causes more problems. However, Epson salts can be added to the root zone a couple times a year, IF your water supply contains magnesium less than 20 ppm. The application rate is one teaspoon per gallon of WARM WATER. Epson salts does not dissolve well in cold water. - Millet
     
  4. WoodlandJennifer

    WoodlandJennifer Member

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    Thank you both for your replies.

    Yesterday I hosed off the plant in the bathtub. A lot more leaves fell off.

    Photos taken this morning. Hopefully attached.

    I can see, once I magnify the photos on my computer that it is dotted with something.

    Jennifer
     

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  5. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    A magnesium deficiency appears on the OLDER leaves. Your leaves look like either an iron or manganese deficiency, plus spider mite damage. - Millet
     
  6. WoodlandJennifer

    WoodlandJennifer Member

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    "Is the tree exposed to drafts, perhaps from heating vents? Or it could be a combination of light, temperature, and humidity levels. A more detailed description of the growing environment and circumstances would help."

    Junglekeeper, in reply to above, our oil furnace rarely kicks in as we use a wood stove. Temperature during the day 70F and at night down to 60F.
    Plant sits on coffee table facing a southern aspect, no direct sun reaches this area in winter. Huge windows.
    This is its first winter in house, bought last summer. I kept the container in morning sun only and shade in afternoon when outside.
    Should I soak the container in a tub of water in case it does need rehydrating?

    Millet, I can't find the nutrients you suggest. I shall try and order it in when I go to town. They don't have it. I live in a isolated area. I managed to get 31-10-10 for evergreen and cedar and used that once since a communication here three weeks ago.
    It seemed to me that as much water as I used with this ran out the bottom.

    Thank you both for your help. I do love this tree. Jennifer
     
  7. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    The stated temperatures are high enough to prevent the tree from going dormant and so it should benefit from more exposure to light. Do you know what humidity levels are present? I've had trouble in the past with leaf loss with levels in the 30's.

    You could ease the root ball out of the container to determine more accurately how much moisture is in it. You may need to take action if it's bone dry.

    Manganese and iron are micronutrients. They, along with others, are included in some fertilizer formulations. Look for them on the fertilizer's label. If your fertilizer is the one from Plant-Prod then they're already present.
     
  8. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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    Hi Jennifer,
    Your leaf drop problem may be due to cold roots and exposure to morning sun. If your house gets down to 60 at night, the soil in your container will get into the 50s. If your tree is exposed to direct morning sun while the roots are in the 50s-- your leaves will die.

    I currently have a couple dozen seedlings in pots outdoors-- including key limes-- we have had temperatures in the low 40s but I have a shade cloth over the seedlings and have had no problem. Direct sun, especially indoors where the leaves cannot be cooled by wind or dew, can cook your trees leaves in a pretty short time if the roots are too cold to transport cooling water.

    Skeet
     
  9. WoodlandJennifer

    WoodlandJennifer Member

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    The humidity level in here during the day is around 42 and 70F, humidity probably drops overnight as the wood stove is not going and temps. drop to 60F.

    I couldn't get the tree eased out of the container without knocking all the lemons off. I compromised and put container in large bucket and let it soak for half an hour. I then let it drain in bath.

    I have twice since last 'talking' to you, wiped off the leaves with a wet cloth. Other than areas near the main stems which I missed, the debris has gone from the leaves.
    It almost looks as if there is some scale.

    I couldn't locate any Plant Prod or any fertilizer mentioned so am stuck with what I used, last mentioned.

    I located some F-T-E trace elements, manganese, iron, zinc, copper, boron and Mo. It is a fairly old package though. I haven't used this as I wanted to put it before you first.

    Skeet, where I live, sun in the winter is a rarity and were it to shine, it would be afternoon and not reach the plant this time of year.

    I have considered trying to find something on which to stand it closer to the window to catch any afternoon sun we do get.

    I also wondered whether I should wrap the pot to keep it warmer.

    Thank you all so much for your help. Jenny
     

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  10. WoodlandJennifer

    WoodlandJennifer Member

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    I have just sprayed the tree with Palmolive dish washing soap which I use in the greenhouse. I didn't like to use insecticide soap in the house, but, if you think what I used won't do for the scale, please advise. Jenny
     
  11. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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    Just so you know, your tree doesn't need light during the winter if it is kept cool (below about 60), but you will not get any growth. If the tree will be heated to 70s, you should consider an additional light source, otherwise it is similar to putting a black bag over the tree, although not as severe, of course.

    The dishwashing soap should work just fine-- soap kills bugs by drowning--it allows the water to wet their waxy bodies when it would otherwise just bead-up and run off.

    Skeet
     
  12. sabagal

    sabagal Member

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    I've been quickly reading about your tree but have been too busy to respond. Your leaves do look like you've had spider mite problems. But your guess about the scale is probably right. I saved your last photo and blew it up big. Best guess is the darker spots on the stem are scale crawlers. This is the mobile and easiest to kill stage. Shortly they will settle in on the stems and undersides of the leaves and form their characteristic shell. Your best cure is to buy some horticultural oil and spray the tree very well. Look for what is called "light" or "lite" oil. It is not so heavy as the old dormant oil and is better for the tree. It has no chemicals and works by putting a thin coating of oil on each insect that suffocates it. It will also kill any spider mites the soap missed. In fact it should work better after the soap since the soap will start to break down the waxy coating on the exoskeleton. I used the oil on the Meyer lemon I care for at my job when it had a BAD case of scale. It was so puny looking last May I thought maybe it wouldn't set lemons this year. With just one treatment and a summer outside it has 5 lovely ripe lemons. Don't despair. Oh yes, for the spider mites, humidity is very important. They are worst when it is very dry. Keep the humidity up and that will go a long way to preventing them. Good luck
     
  13. WoodlandJennifer

    WoodlandJennifer Member

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    Skeet and Sabagal, thanks for your replies.

    I shall attend to what you both advise. I have eleven lemons, five of them large. I would hate to lose them but worst would be to lose the tree.
    I have a challenge ahead of me.
    Thanks again.
    Jennifer
     
  14. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

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    Jennifer, I suspect spider mites too. I keep all but 2 of my potted citrus in a unheated garage that is in my house. It does not freeze but it keeps my beer cold enough to drink!
    My experience is that citrus plants do NOT like to be inside, in an environment that humans feel comfortable. They prefer a more moist humid locations. The two citrus that I have ( Trovita Orange and a Harvey Lemon)are in front of my kitchen sink in a bay window and a westerly exposure. I leave the light (CFL) on during the day. I also mist them with water 2 or 3 times a day.

    Greg
     
  15. WoodlandJennifer

    WoodlandJennifer Member

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    Greg, thank you for your help. Right now it is minus 10 here on the Arrow Lakes. I shall carry tree to bath each day and mist. I do mist my ficus and all my ivy plants.
    I am grateful to all who have helped me with this problem. I feel I shall be quite knowledgeable on lemons one day soon. Jennifer
     

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