Unknow Plant - Anthirum???

Discussion in 'Araceae' started by jonewton, Nov 27, 2007.

  1. jonewton

    jonewton Member

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    Greetings all! I have a wonderful houseplant that needs some care but I have no idea what it really is. I've purchased it from Pikes Nursery in GA as I purchase all of my plants there. I've gone back to them so they could nurse the plant but all they can tell me is that it is an Anthirum. Some of the roots like to grow above the soil and it has green wavy edge leaves. I can't seem to find this plant anywhere, as if I have the only one ;) Help! Does anyone know what it is or could be?
     

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  2. jonewton

    jonewton Member

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    I finally found it! It's a Anthurium Schlechtendalii Kunth. I'm still looking for instructions on how to care for it. If you know, please share.

    Thanks
     
  3. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Anthurium schlechtendalii is known to science to be an extremely variable species. It can take on many leaf forms and sizes depending on where and how it is grown. My largest specimen has leaves close to 6 feet long (1.8 meters) and a spread of 10 feet or more (over 3 meters). You might find the photos of my specimen interesting to compare with your plant.

    http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Anthurium schlechtendalii homepage.html

    It took 8 years for us to determine the species' name for certain due to the fact this species is so variable.
     
  4. etropicals

    etropicals Member

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    Im not sure that this is the species your describing. It looks an awful lot like Anthurium Plowmanii Fruffles.
     
  5. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Possible Eric, although this one does not resemble the specimen I received of Anthurium plowmanii from Dr. Croat at the Missouri Botanical Garden. The only way to know for certain is if the Anthurium produces a spathe and the owner photographs it. There are some very technical differences but without a bunch of measurements and photos, all the members of section Pachyneurium (the birds nest forms) are often difficult to tell apart. With measurements of the petioles (stems), the peduncle which supports the spathe and some additional measurements and photos, it is possible to get a closer ID. Botanists often have difficulty discerning all the differences since these plants have a high degree of variation. One specimen often looks little like another known specimen of the same species. It is just the nature of Anthurium.

    If you really want to get down to the fine differences, buy a copy of Dr. Croat's Journals of the Missouri Botanical Garden, Volume 78, #3, 1991. It has the scientific descriptions with keys to discern the different species including photographs of the spathe and spadix. It is about $20 directly from MOBOT.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2007
  6. blackbeauty

    blackbeauty Active Member

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    It's plowmanii frufless. Well known species in Indonesia. Can be more 10 variation. With narrow widht of leaf or less wavy. We are Indonesian call it "Wave of love". The yellow colours around the leaf edge, if it's a health plant and well taken care, show that the plant is variegata. The leaf colour usually just green. And if it's so, you hold a treasure Jonetown.
     
  7. stone jaguar

    stone jaguar Member

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    Blackbeauty:

    I agree with this ID...this plant is one of the minor variants of Anthurium plowmanii 'Fruffles' that is quite popular in the 'States...they seem to vary more between cultural conditions than from their genetic backgrounds, with more light and drier roots generating more upright, tighter rosettes and a lot higher "waves of love" on the leaf margins :) The inflorescences tends to "nest" just off the center on short peduncles, well below the upper edge of the rosette. Steve; 'Fruffles' is a stable ornamental hort selection whose overall appearance does differ significantly from other ecotypes of plowmanii.

    I do disagree with the analysis of the plant's color...it is clearly nutrient deficient and should have its nitrogen and magnesium input improved. It is NOT a variegate. The potting medium also looks to be rather dense for this type of anthurium...they do best with very, very free-draining media...I have grown them in pure medium grade hort pumice and shredded fern + oak charcoal and they grow fine...these peat-based media tend to compact over time and generate a lot of tip burn from root loss.

    BTW - this species is one of the birds-nest types that is particularly succeptible to bacterial blight. Most important that ventilation is good and that its leaves are kept fairly dry to keep the leaves unblemished.

    Jay
     
  8. raymikematt

    raymikematt Active Member

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    jonewton...a little off topic but I heard that all but a few of the Pikes nurseries in Georgia were going out of business. Is this true? Possibly due to the drought and competition from the big boxes?
     
  9. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    This specimen may well be Anthurium plowmanii. I just can't see enough information from these photos to offer an opinion, and mine would only be an opinion. My information about Anthurium schlectendalii was offered solely because the specimen's owner appears to feel it is that species. And after some time of trading email with Dr. Croat and finally taking a full leaf blade, spathe, spadix and a bunch of photos to him were we able to determine my specimen was Anthurium schechtendalii.

    A good aroid botanist won't often offer an opinion without a great deal more information than can be found in a single photograph, and I am certainly not a botanist. I did receive this email from aroid expert Julius Boos on the morning of November 11, 2007. Working with some of the world's top aroid botanists, Julius has published a number of scientific papers on a variety of aroid species. This is what Julius had to say about identifying any unknown Anthurium specimen:

    "Basically, to ID an Anthurium from Photos a taxonomist will require
    collection data and good close-up and other ''over-all'' photos of--
    1) The entire plant, as complete as possible, roots and all to the
    crown.
    2) A GOOD photo showing details of the front and back of the leaf
    blade, petiole.
    3) A close-up of a petiole in cross-section.
    4) A close-up of the crown of the plant to illustrate the cataphylls
    and growth habit, etc..
    5) Close-ups of the bloom showing spathe position at male anthesis,
    spadix at male anthesis.

    Ideally, you should also send dried herbarium quality specimens of an
    entire leaf broken off from the rhizome, the entire petiole with
    sheath and all, and a bloom or two collected and dried at male
    anthesis."


    Other information from trained taxonomists indicates knowing the glossiness or dullness of both the top and underside of a blade is important. The cataphyll is a distinguishing characteristic and is the plant structure that is formed around any new leaf when it first develops. The petiole is the structure commonly called a "stem". The color of the berries produced on the spadix is critical to the confirmation of an identification. Since only a sparse amount of this information is available and includes no measurements or a photo of the spathe and spadix, I would not personally be so bold as to offer an absolute opinion. However, anyone is obviously free to make any and all suggestions. If the possibility this specimen is a hybrid exists, and natural hybrids are very common in nature and are even more frequently created by horticulturists, the possibility of an identification is almost certainly lost past a few generations. Although hybrids can be quite beautiful, they are no longer the species as described by a botanist since their genetic structure has been altered. As a result, still trying to call a plant by one of its botanical names once DNA has been combined with other species is not likely any longer accurate. Of course, collectors are free to give any plant in their collection any name they choose. I simply prefer to do my best to narrow my own collection down to the most accurate scientific name.

    Anthurium, especially from this section, are extremely variable. That term is often foreign to plant collectors since many expect every leaf of every plant of the same species to look alike. That simply does not work with many aroids, especially Anthurium. Leaf shapes are not often the final determining factor in finding the species' identification. Fine details determine the species. As the name "variable" implies, there are just too many variations and additional factors to make a guaranteed identification from photographs.

    So what is it? I really have no opinion. But if the specimen's owner is interested in learning a possible species identification, then I'd certainly suggest a much larger selection of photos and measurements. To me, that is why it is fun to research members of the "birds nest" group known to a botanist as Anthurium section Pachynerium.

    But absolute identifications are very difficult, often impossible, especially if hybridization is involved.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2007
  10. stone jaguar

    stone jaguar Member

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    Steve:

    I must be a glutton for punishment. It's certainly heartening to read that you now feel that one needs detailed photos to ID certain plants, since this would appear to mark a real sea change in your public position on this over the past month. This one has quite enough visual data to ID it, however, if you happen to grow one (or more).

    Again, I live in Anthurium schlechtendalii range state. They are an extremely common plant here, and I have seen and handled literally thousands of them in the course of doing comparative work on other native aroids over the past decade. I have written before on this forum that it is a very variable species and can confuse some people (¿all the time?). It is particularly plastic when making the move from small to large. This past weekend I was on the Caribbean coast here with two well-known American plantsman, and he pointed out that the thatch on the roofs of all of the forest lodge we stayed at were populated by good numbers of this sp.

    [​IMG]

    Obviously, from these pups to 2.20 m individuals populating the grounds, there is a very wide range of individual variation.

    [​IMG]

    Sorry, I didn't include a closeup up the inflorescence, cataphylls and the petiole cross-section for a positive ID, but I'm sure most people would agree that these are A. schlectendalii.

    BRgds,

    Jay
     
  11. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    I certainly have no desire to try to be perceived as any form of an expert. I have made every attempt on my webpages to consult with qualified experts and offer little personal opinion although many seem to think that all I write is opinion. If what I write here is somehow different, I am uncertain how. I often quote experts, including you. But I am concerned at the persistent attempts from some quarters on this forum to make what I write somehow appear to be worthless. I read, do my best to understand, consult qualified experts and post what I can learn. I do my absolute best to leave opinion out of the discussion preferring to state the qualified opinion of true experts. I am not a botanist and make no claim to be one. I am a writer. And I've published many magazine articles. If my writing style offends, then I apologize. But please, can we stop trying to destroy the message due to the messanger?
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2007

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