yes? no? Heat aside, would the soil and humidity (or lack thereof) be tolerated by JMs? Could you plant, or would they have to be container grown? Obviously they need a dormant period (ie, winter), would they get that in Vegas? Hubby's exploring possible work options out there, so figured it couldn't hurt to ask the question... Thanks!!
Heat aside? Lol. If you can have an airconditioned area fit for a small tree, you could be able to keep a potted maple under sunlight, provided you have a humidity regulator in place, and you let winter temps to take over in winter.
You can prepare a raised bed with good soil, in afternoon shade, and adequate watering. Choosing a nice seedling rather than a grafted cultivar you will be able to enjoy a beautiful JM from March to June. After that it will become very unsightly with burnt leaves, it could even defoliate completely but will spring back to life. If you can live with that, then go ahead and enjoy Gomero
Heat aside, I know, lol. The reason I said that is because here in Wichita, KS, we were actually hotter overall than Vegas was this summer (and last too, if I remember correctly). Granted, they can get hotter than us, but it's usually only for a day or two, and they have the added benefit of actually cooling down at night. When we get to the triple digits for days - or, lately, weeks on end - we barely hit 85 overnight... Why do you say this Gomero?? I had hoped that a raised bed would work, so thanks for the input on that... Obviously, shade and adequate water will be the biggest factors.
Kansas would have more moisture though. I would assume. Do not underestimate the power of desert heat + lack of humidity. With enough resources though... Climate control can be doable...
In such adverse conditions grafted cultivars may have it harder than a seedling and you may struggle to keep them alive. I have noticed here in my garden in Southern France that seedlings take heat and drought much better than grafted plants. And you can find seedlings which are as pretty as any cultivar. Gomero
Japanese maples can possibly survive in Vegas. Just watch out for they can be very prone to leaf scorch in windy or extremely sunny positions particularly those having fine-cut leaves.
Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. At this point, we'll be staying put in KS, but I figured it couldn't hurt to ask the question in case hubby does get a position out there. He knows how much I love my trees, and feels bad about the potential of asking me to not have them anymore (if climate conditions would dictate this). How cold, and for how long, do maples typically need for a dormant period? A buddy of my husband's who lives in Vegas said they're winter is quite mild (obviously) and lasts a couple of months at most. From what I've been able to find online, unless you get up to the higher elevation of Charleston Peak (just outside Vegas), the city proper is about a zone 8a-b, so I didn't know if this would be sufficient for the trees' winter nap. Pools are, understandably, very popular in the area, and I had thought that this might help with increasing local humidity as compared to what is typical for the area. The only thing, I think, that might be a drawback with a pool is siting the trees too close and risk getting the reflected light/heat from the water...
http://www.weather.com/outlook/trav...vac_compare&clocid1=USNV0049&clocid2=USFL0479 I am zone 8-b, and Japanese Maples grown here *do* get enough winter rest. It is sufficient.
Most of the UK is also zone 8, but that is about the only aspect of our climate that is in any way similar to Las Vegas.
Obviously my old posts in the past in this Maple forum have been rendered archaic and are of no consequence whatsoever any more. I can grow a palmatum type Maple in Las Vegas and I‘ve posted ideas in what to be mindful of. Am I missing something or is it that the photos of our Maples in the misses yard I've provided in the past in this forum are no more? I've read more than once in the past in this forum that there was a perception that no one can successfully grow Maples in our climate, zone and array of alkaline soils. Even with photos of ours showing that is not only possible but some cultivars can indeed thrive here and can grow almost as well as anywhere in the world [the proof is in those series of photos (all of those Maples are still alive) and they are just a small sampling of the Maples we have had in the ground]. Jim
Jim, the search function shows you have previously mentioned Las Vegas in two threads, and then only in passing. People, myself included, may not be fully aware how similar or different the climate in your garden is to Las Vegas, or how far away from Las Vegas you are located. I always look forward to reading your posts, both old and new; the information contained therein is highly valued, certainly not archaic, and would help to increase anyone's knowledge of Japanese maples.
As memory serves correct since I am away from home at the moment, Coit in his 1913 Citrus book pretty well refutes the notion that latitude is a major constituent of the accuracy of the USDA zonal determinations. Where I am, based on latitude, we may have the same USDA zonal designation as Atlanta, Georgia but there is a huge difference in our climates. So much of a difference that plant people in the West devised their own zonal decrees as seen in the Sunset Western Garden Book. I abide by those zones, not the USDA. The problem with latitude as Coit pointed out was that if Oroville can grow outdoor Citrus without extreme measures taken to protect the trees during the Winter, which by the way was how it was back in the early 20th century when Oroville produced enough fresh market Citrus to be a "player", a definite Citrus growing area, that with the latitude being nearly the same as New York City that Citrus should be able to grow as freely in New York City as it did in Oroville. Of course that was not the case at all, even at that time as New York City was perennially cooler and cooler longer in the number of days than Oroville was at that time. As a matter of fact for anyone that wants to know, the Red Lime was found in Oroville. Now is a rather "hot" and lusted after plant commodity for the avid Citrus collectors among us to obtain. I am real surprised at a few people in this forum relaying information from others that have never dealt with growing plants in such an arid region as ours. I remember in the past of someone in France trying to elucidate weather information and stating that their weather was close, not the same mind you, as Sacramento. Well, there is a day and night difference from Sacramento and even nearby Folsom to the East. It is the Folsom climate that is actually closer to that area in France, not Sacramento proper, Roseville or even Davis. Just the amounts of precipitation clearly favors Davis and Folsom with Sacramento, Citrus Heights, Ranch Cordova and Roseville getting much less rainfall in a typical rain year. You have to know our area, no different than knowing how much rain and how cold Saugus gets compared to Northridge and Van Nuys. If you do not know the area please try not to compare WGB zone 11 (Las Vegas) or WGB zone 9 (Fresno) to your USDA zone 8 for heat and transpiration loss index. We are known to have container plant temps upwards of 140 degrees, even at midnight around here and in Las Vegas. I hasten to think that the mid-west and Southern France gets anywhere near that but I'll leave open the possibility that they can but not for as many hours in a day and certainly not the total number of days as us and Las Vegas. Jim
What good is a search engine if no one uses the search capabilities was my gripe for a long while in this forum. I always referred to using the keyword search as being one of the best features this forum format had. I never once felt that Daniel and others involved didn't not do a real benefit, and in my view an unappreciated service, by providing this feature. Never did I think that someone would use this same tool against me. Bear in mind that several posts of mine were subsequently deleted out of another sub-forum which did list some information about growing Citrus in Las Vegas as well as parallel growing of Maples in that same locale. Now that we have some clarity let me finish my involvement in this thread by getting started below. Growing palmatum type Maples in a slightly warmer climate with a longer growing season than Fresno as an example requires us to know what we are up against compared to our own home area. We have some real soil issues in Las Vegas as we are dealing with an area that does have some compaction issues, wind blown sand issues, combined with alkaline salt issues in the soil and then we have some real limitations that there is so little organic matter left in the native soil. So, we have soil pH issues, sun baking and soil caking issues, nutrient binding issues we need to unblock. We have to work in a plan to add in organic matter to the soil that will make the soil more friable and also help sustain the plant we want to grow in ground. For container grown palmatum type Maple growing we have heat indexes within the can we have to deal with in some way or we surely will see what gomero pointed as a whole lot of Maples showing wind, heat and salt burn all over the place and pretty much on every Maple we have during the sustained hot periods of the Summer and early Fall. You will not see very good Fall color in Las Vegas plant to plant but you might see some cultivars surprise you as they do us here with Fall color on some cultivars up to the middle of December, like our Kiyohime akame has done for us in ground the last few years. How many of you still have leaves on your Maples right now? We still have late flush new growth leaves on the Simonii Trident Maple, Kiyohime akame, Sherwood Flame, Shishio improved (spelling is correct for this Maple. Differs from Chishio improved by having a different yet similar parental origin), Senkaki and Bloodgood. All of the above Maples can be grown in Las Vegas with added care and site preparation and there are full service nurseries in and near the metropolitan area that can help with the soil site prepping. Water availability could be an issue depending on where you are and water quality can be a nuisance issue due to water pH, mineral content or lack thereof, water bacteria and whether you are using chlorinated water (treated water) or not. Smart move is to have your water tested by a reputable lab before you ever plant a Maple in ground or try to grow Maples from containers. Overhead watering for large sized container plants with chlorine in the water may not be a good thing to do during the day - can lead to leaf scorch real easy and can become real widespread fast. Best time to water container plants is before heat build up in the can - morning, right before or at sun up and in the evening after sun down to provide some cooling in the can to offset the build up of heat that can injure roots in the container when the interior temperatures in the can gets up to 140 degrees or higher. The whole point in my making the brash statement that I can grow palmatum type Maples in Las Vegas is that we also have had to learn to grow plants in a very warm, sustained warmth, once the heat sets in, environ quite similar to Las Vegas with only a two to three degree difference on average. Where we are vastly different is in the cooler temperatures that we get than Las Vegas does. For growing Maples and Citrus in ground in Las Vegas our main issues are soil and water limitations. In Fresno it is the cold snap that hits at the wrong time that can cause wood dieback and even death to Citrus - sustained cold at 22 degrees can be lethal to Eureka and sometimes to Lisbon Lemons with the latter sustaining severe cold burn and bark splitting if the trees had not been killed outright. The cold has not been an issue for our Maples. Could be or would be if those trees had tender young new growth leaves on them when the cold snap hits however. Most states have a Cooperative Extension working with or through a major University in the state. Since Nevada has several state, regional and local Cooperative Extensions, unlike many other states that only have one official Cooperative Extension, then check with your nearest office online or in person for more assistance. If you can grow Maples successfully in Kansas you can grow Maples in Las Vegas as long as you have an idea what your limiting factors are. Someone growing Maples in a much cooler area than you in Kansas with little or no experience growing plants in a much warmer climate is in for a real jolt trying to establish Maples in such a warm, wind scorching and harsher to the plant environ. Jim
Thank you SO MUCH Jim for your insight, advice and words of wisdom. I will admit, I do sometimes forget to use the search feature prior to posting a question, but it is exceptionally handy, useful and informative. I am fully aware that soil, wind and humidity will likely be the most difficult factors to work with, but I hadn't thought about the compaction, increased alkalinity, etc, of the soil. Nor the chlorine in the water. Here in KS, in summer especially, I water in the morning before 10am if at all possible, and during a real strong heat wave in the evening as well, usually around 6-7pm. This year, I switched to the fabric pots for the majority of my trees 1-5g in size (they go by many names, Dirt Bag, Smart Pot, etc), and it did appear that the trees were much happier than they had been in the plastic pots, likely because there wasn't the amount of heat build up like happens with the plastic. If we would end up moving to Vegas, any planted trees would be in a highly amended raised bed. Thank you again Jim!!!
