I saw a beautyful tree in my area, snipped a small tip and a cone and inquired in various Garden Supplies. In each store, there were Master Gardeners. I still could not get a satisfactory identification. The following IDs look promising: 1. Picea orientalis 'Aurea' 2. Picea abies 'Acrocona' (spelling may be wrong) 3. Picea abies 'Argenteospica' 4. Picea pungens 'Maigold' 5. Possibly Picea abies 'Aurea'.. The attached images are all from the same tree, probably about 10 years old. It is relatively slow growing.. Could anyone help? I do want to plant one in my garden! Erik
if you can attach the images you will almost certainly have success with ID, someone here should be able to name it for you or at the least narrow the list.
Hi Erik: I am at the wrong location whereby my access speed here is the pits, 14.4bps. I can, however, direct you to a page loaded with "eye candy" and you just might find the tree you have interest in. If you cannot find the form of Spruce you are looking for in this site let me know. I will be able to check everything better and in faster detail in a day or two but not while I am here. I doubt anyone will express any displeasure seeing the pics in this great web site for Conifers. Go through the entire site if need be to find your Spruce but I bet it is in there. http://www.coenosium.com/goldconfrs/goldconifers.htm Jim
Difficult Spruce With reference to my posting "Pretty Spruce", including pictures and posted a couple of days ago, I have spent a fair amount of time on Google, etc. I think the tree is either Picea orientalis 'Aureospicata' or Picea abies 'Argenteospica'. Could someone who has botanical training please help out?! Also, where should I try to purchase such tree? Regards, Erik
I'm going to side with a golden cultivar of Picea orientalis (as you probably noted from the Coenosium site, the cultivars are determined by timing (and / or presence) of colour-fade. My rationale is this: In Gerd Krüssman's Manual of Cultivated Conifers, Figure 124 shows a cross-section of needles in the Section Eupicea; the needles of Picea abies are taller than wide in cross-section, while the needles of Picea orientalis are wider than tall. To get an idea of needles, check out this photo of Picea abies 'Acrocona' and compare those needles with the ones in your photographs.
Below from 'Golden Conifers'. http://www.coenosium.com/goldconfrs/goldconifers.htm "A native of the Caucasus, Picea orientalis has given us some very striking golden cultivirs. Two of these, ‘Aurea’ and ‘Aureospicata’, both exhibit golden new growth in the spring. The difference between them is the retention of some gold coloration on the foliage of ‘Aurea’ while ‘Aureospicata’ soon turns completely dark green. Both grow to a large size and put on an eyecatching display in Spring when the gold of the new foliage is contrasted with the dark green of the older foliage." Until I know the answer to the question above about whether the golden needles turn green later or retain some gold in them, this one is Picea orientalis 'Aurea'. I cite as my example 'Conifers' by D. M van Gelderen and J.R.P. van Hoey Smith page 219 top right photo. The second image, 130_3013a.jpg, is what convinced me. As I remember it, 'Aureospicata' is a little more compact and is not quite as spreading in its growth as Aurea is. The green color of Aurea is a richer green in color than Aureospicata is. I've had Aurea and 'Skylands' before and only have seen Aureospicata once so I could have my thinking above for Aurea and Aureospicata backwards. Hopefully, someone that really knows these two Spruce will respond. Erik, had it not been for Daniel chiming in to really help from a Botanical standpoint, I would not have responded again. You are asking for help and you seemed somewhat impatient by your last post. From doing some searches on my own I learned why as so few of the references show a pic of the form of Picea orientalis they want to sell other than Skylands. I already had directed you to as prime a source to buy this plant from as there is in the world of Conifers. Jim
Solved Spruce? With ref. to "Pretty Spruce": 1. Thank you Daniel: This is real stuff! If you mean that if the horizontal dimension of a needle is greater than the vertical, then it is an Orientalis, well then it is an orientalis for sure! I have 2 more pics enclosed.. ...22a is top of twig; ....23a from bottom. 2. Thank you Jim: I should have told the following in the beginning, but I am a beginner.. The spring growth seems to start out creamy yellow, goes through lemon or butter yellow and is now a little greenish yellow. The needles will soon be shiny dark emerald green; not dull green like some trees.. Subject to any other input on this GREAT forum, I am getting close to deducting that the tree must be a Picea orientalis 'Aureospicata (Aurea-spicata, Aurea Spicata)' or P. o. 'Early Gold' (which is said to be same as Aureospicata, but ~2 weeks earlier...). Paul (jimmyq): What do you think so far? Thanks again everyone. Erik
leaning to aureo spicata, but... I am trying to find the time to come see it and then spend the hours buried in a good conifers book or two to get my opinion really set. I have seen the "golden oriental cedar" which I believe was orientalis aurea, growing in full sun condition and the yellow was most definately pronounced on the sunny side of the tree, fading towards early summer, maybe late June around these parts...
Solved Spruce? Yes, I have to-dau ordered up the two books referred to by Daniel & Jim. It could take some time before the library e-mails me.. I'd like to ID this tree now, but plant it in late fall. Any comments how I can arrange that? Regards, Erik
Hi Erik: I think jimmyq has the right idea. We have to see this tree at various stages during the year to be able to accurately pinpoint it. In many forms of trees such as Japanese Maples there are very subtle areas that can differentiate one Maple from another most similar Maple. The same is true for Picea orientalis 'Aurea' and Picea orientalis 'Aureospicata'. Either way you now are pretty certain the tree is one or the other. It would help to know where the tree originated from such as where did the owner originally buy it but I think for now you may want to contact Bob at the Coenosium Gardens and have him take a peek at the pics you have posted. He may know instantly and he may want to be cautious and wait and see what the needles look like in about 4-5 months to be sure. I will say that you have interest in two excellent books on Conifers and I applaud your desire to have them. Jim
Thanks jimmyq and mr.shep: 1. Yes, we will be watching colour change. It appears that the new growth is now slowly shifting towards greenish yellow.. 2. There is no way that I'll find source for this tree. The present house owner has no idea where the original owner got his trees from. 3. I just (snail)mailed a letter to Bob Fincham. 4. I did not receive the 2 books yet.. So, I'll have to wait for a while and see. Erik
New Spruce! Further to "Pretty Spruce?" posted previously.. 1. I found an exact duplicate spruce in my area! The lady who had bought it is working in a very good Garden Centre here and is very respected. She gave the following info: a) Tree is slow growing in the beginning, then grows 12" or more per year. b) She ID it as P. o. 'Aurea'; did not know 'Spicata'.. Note: I found under Bluebell Nursery (UK): 'Aurea', formerly 'Aureosicata' ! 2. Then yesterday, we were out biking in the area and found yet another tree that seems to be same as the other 2! It had name on it (just planted this season) stating P. o. picoriaur, Golden Spruce, medium growing upright conifer, 3-5', $189.98. No source given on nametag; only a numbercode. I cannot find 'Picoriaur' on Google.. Anybody has an idea?? 3. Still waiting for conifer books and response from WA.. Erik
Erik, I've merged the threads. If you reply to an earlier thread, it is bumped back to the top of the stack; also, by replying to an old thread on the same topic, it keeps people "in the loop" if they've subscribed by email to a topic (to keep track of new posts), plus the "thread" of discussion is not disjointed (i.e., people do not have to search for the earlier messages). Technical matters aside: the RHS Plant Finder recognizes both 'Aurea' and 'Aureospicata' as separate cultivars. Bluebell Nursery could have been selling one as the other and then realized the mistake, or perhaps the nursery owner doesn't feel the difference warrants two names, or perhaps they could be confused about the differences. Hard to say, but consensus suggests they are separate entities. As for "Picoriaur" - it appears that is a nursery shorthand code using the first three letters for Picea orientalis 'Aurea' (or 'Aureospicata'). Unfortunately, that doesn't give any clarification on the cultivar.
Thank you Daniel: It was a bad habit.. Sorry! I earlier tried to use same thread but but at the same time insert more pictures; it did not seem to work. Thus, I started new thread at that time. Thank you for explanation of "name". These trees definetily seem to get a little greener now. Does it perhaps mean P. o. Aureospicata ? Erik
Hi Erik: If the needles in a few months turn green with some gold coloration on the ends of the needles then the Spruce is probably Aurea rather than Aureospicata. This is now a time when Bob's thoughts would really come in handy as he knows both plants as well as anyone. One issue that has plagued the nursery industry is that an old cultivar does not have the zest that a newer name will have. In this case Aurea has been around much longer than Aureospicata has. It is natural for growers to wish to have the newer form as it will have more meaning to them to have the newer and to them rarer form of Orientalis Aurea. I remember very well when select people in Oregon had some early, small plants of Skylands and how others reacted when they saw that plant for the first time. I was one of them when I bought a 2 gallon plant at a time when there were no 5 gallon plants or larger sizes of it available. There will be people online that have Aurea that may be calling their form Aureospicata so you may want to know where the seller got their original plant material. With Conifers, it is imperative for me to know where the grower got their original plants of a specific variety. I would know by their answers if the plant was the right one but only after I looked at the plant first and came up with my own opinion of it. I am not surprised that people online have Aurea and Skylands listed in their catalogs but to offer a plant online without a photo of it, sends the wrong signals to me. I would pass on the plant no matter unless I personally know the grower. The largest issue I have and I've talked to people about this before is when someone asks a wholesale nursery about a specific and rare form that they have. The nursery will answer our questions but will not sell to us retail. I've always felt that if I come into their nursery and ask about one of their rarer Conifers that they should sell it to me if I wanted it because they should be grateful that someone else knows enough about that plant to want it. If I buy it then I am a good advertisement for them for future sales as there were might be some nurserymen that know me that would be quite interested in having that plant at some point in time. I would stick to a reputable grower such as Bob. If he does not reply back to you let me know. I want his catalog so I will be in touch with him soon enough. Jim
Progress Report: A. Received answers from Bob Fincham, Coenosium Gardens on 15, 19, & 27 June: 1. Tree is Picea orientalis 'Aureospicata'. The cultivar 'Early Gold is identical but shows its new growth about 2 weeks earlier. 2. He has one small tree available, however: a) I will require import permit b) Inspection fee in the US is S$ 45.00 3. He recomended: a) Grafting from existing tree or b) Try http://www.canadanursery.com 4. Received catalogue later. B. Received Gelderen, Smith: Conifers, Vol. 1 on 21 June, Vol. 2 (Picea) not rec. yet C. Received Krüssmann, Manual of Cultivated Conifers on 7 July. D. The new growth of this tree is now "almost green". Looks like a regular Xmas Tree.. I have not had the time to find a source for a tree yet.. Perhaps someone could help with that? I'd like to plant one tree in the late fall! Thanks everyone for all your help! Regards, Erik
