My sumac has no drupes

Discussion in 'Outdoor Gardening in the Pacific Northwest' started by Laura Blumenthal, Aug 19, 2017.

  1. Laura Blumenthal

    Laura Blumenthal Active Member

    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    How long does it take for a sumac to develop drupes? I've had it since October 2015, and it's growing really well, but I really got it for the beautiful fall foliage and the drupes - so far, no drupes. Am I doing something wrong? Also, what does a drupe look like when it's developing? I can't find any pix of that on the web.
     
  2. wcutler

    wcutler Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

    Messages:
    5,634
    Likes Received:
    106
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    There is a photo of what Douglas Justice called "bobs" in his blog related to this posting:
    October 10, 2014 - October in the Garden
    The sumac photo is about half-way down.

    You might have got a male tree, in which case, no fruits.
     
  3. wcutler

    wcutler Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

    Messages:
    5,634
    Likes Received:
    106
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    I should have asked first if it has flowered? I don't know how old it has to be to flower. I'm confused that an Ontario page would say flowering time is May-June, while a Missouri page says June-July. There are good photos of the flowers and of the drupe bobs on this page:
    Rhus typhina - Staghorn sumac - Photo Gallery of Large Pictures

    When it flowers, look to see if you see stamens or a pistil in each flower.
     
  4. Laura Blumenthal

    Laura Blumenthal Active Member

    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Oh - hi there! It has flowered and finished months ago. It also has something on it that looks like it might be the beginning of a drupe, but I'm not sure. Here's a pic:
    fullsizeoutput_55c2.jpeg
     
  5. Laura Blumenthal

    Laura Blumenthal Active Member

    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    I would like to see a picture of what the drupes/bobs look like before they get to complete fruition.
     
  6. wcutler

    wcutler Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

    Messages:
    5,634
    Likes Received:
    106
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    There are pretty amazing photos on this page:
    Micscape Microscopy and Microscope Magazine
    The female flower panicles (scroll down the page) look pretty much like they will when the fruits develop.

    That page says that most of the flowers are perfect, with both stamens and pistils, but still says that the trees are either one or the other.

    I'm not sure what the panicle looks like after the male flowers have finished flowering, but maybe it's what you're showing. The page referenced here says "Once the flowers have finished blooming on the male sumac tree, they shrivel up and drop off. For the rest of the growing season, the tree has only leaves; it does not develop the colourful “fruit” of the female tree discussed below."
     
    chimera likes this.
  7. Laura Blumenthal

    Laura Blumenthal Active Member

    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Amazing photos - I wonder if I've got a male. Meh.
     
  8. thanrose

    thanrose Active Member

    Messages:
    686
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    Daytona Beach, FL USA
    Laura, your pic doesn't have any indication of fruit forming. That is likely a male plant.
     
  9. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,706
    Likes Received:
    23
    Location:
    Fraser Valley, B.C. ,Canada
  10. wcutler

    wcutler Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

    Messages:
    5,634
    Likes Received:
    106
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Thanks, @chimera. I put a link to the cherry page in Ornamental Cherries. There are a lot of flowers there, not sorted by common name or botanical name. They do have a search function, but since they don't ID that page as Prunus avium, you can only find it on a search if you just enter Prunus.
     
  11. Laura Blumenthal

    Laura Blumenthal Active Member

    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Ah - that is unfortunate. Thanks!
     
  12. Georgia Strait

    Georgia Strait Active Member

    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, BC Canada
    QUESTION - does the original poster in this thread then need both male and female sumac plants to create the bob fruit (soft fuzzy looking) she's looking for?
     
  13. wcutler

    wcutler Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

    Messages:
    5,634
    Likes Received:
    106
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Well, the OP would need the female, as she just has the male. Maybe someone can answer what might be your question: how close does another male need to be for a female plant to be fertilized?
     
  14. Georgia Strait

    Georgia Strait Active Member

    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, BC Canada
    Yes you've clarified my question

    The OP obviously needs the female sumac plant as that is what apparently bears the bobs --- but does the OP need the male sumac nearby (plus some helpful bees?)

    QUESTION 2 --- so when buying at the plant nursery - unless bobs are evident - how would one know which gender the sumac is

    It seems quite uncommon these days to require both genders for what we usually hope for on our ornamental plants (holly w berries etc) --- would you agree? Just curious - I'm not a plant scientist.
     
    Laura Blumenthal likes this.
  15. Laura Blumenthal

    Laura Blumenthal Active Member

    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    I also have another question: This plant has produced several "offspring", as it were - growing out of the bottom of the trunk or the root system (I assume). Would all of these be male, too?
     
  16. Georgia Strait

    Georgia Strait Active Member

    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, BC Canada
    It's interesting because the short sumac do well in cold winter and hot dry summer along the compacted gravel of the trans Canada trail (former KVR rail grade) above Naramata Okanagan BC

    I wonder if they're introduced exotic - or are they native ?
     
  17. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Renowned Contributor UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

    Messages:
    8,799
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Yes, they would be vegetative clones and the same sex.
     
  18. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Renowned Contributor UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

    Messages:
    8,799
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    These should all be native to the area.
     
  19. Laura Blumenthal

    Laura Blumenthal Active Member

    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    I got an answer to this (offline) - unfortunately, yes.
     
  20. Georgia Strait

    Georgia Strait Active Member

    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, BC Canada
    Hello DANIEL - can you please tell us out here if anyone planting for the drupes (bobs) needs to have a matched pair of male-female ---- or how does that work in plant-world?
    (oh - and some bees too at the ideal few days of pollination season here in PacNW?)

     
  21. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Renowned Contributor UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

    Messages:
    8,799
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Yes, both Rhus glabra (the native) and Rhus typhina (eastern North American) are dioecious and so require pollen from the male plants to reach the female plants for fruit to fully form. The flowers look similar on both male and female plants, I suppose without a hand lens it would be hard to tell the difference. You would need to have both male and female in a garden--best would be to have seed-grown plants, or (if vegetatively cloned before reaching the nursery) hopefully they are labeled by sex at the nursery.
     
  22. Laura Blumenthal

    Laura Blumenthal Active Member

    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, Canada

Share This Page