If anyone has any additional information, that would be great! http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/rencana/p_x_evansii_origins.htm
Updated article...it might be that P. x evansii was introduced after 1942 because: Catalogs from the Evans and Reeves nurseries in 1942 do not contain references to this hybrid, although it does mention that it stocks "PHILODENDRONS - We grow and stock a variety of these handsome decoratative subjects, particularly P. pertusum, P. trifoliatum". It thus seems as if Philodendron x evansii was introduced between the early 1940s and the early 1950s * Thanks to Ms. Horn of the Massachusetts Horticultural Society So, this puts its introduction between the early 1940s and the early 1950s....
It looks like the quest for the origins of P. x evansii has ended... I found that it was introduced in 1952, and have obtained a copy of the nursery catalog that introduced this hybrid: http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/rencana/p_x_evansii_origins.htm
Good to see you have found the origins, strange place to find it lol. I have also been watching this thread on aroidl. I enjoy your writings Ed
Thanks...I'm surprised it took so fast to find it...i was lucky...i decided to take the tack of looking for old catalogs of the nurseries.... The internet has lots of stuff, but in the end, quite a lot of knowledge is still hidden deep in the bowels of libaries.
Hi - You might wanna take a pic of the trunk or stem, closeup included. Leaves by themselves are not definitive.
The attached picture is the best I can take, it is climbing on a tree and the top of the Philodendron most be about 8 m high.
Where are you? Mexico? That looks like it, at least superficially...one thing though is that the number of veins along the side seem rather high for this plant.... can you get to see the stem itself...should look like this...very distinctive for meconostigmas... http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/p_x_evansii_img6.htm That pic you took looks like this, which is a P. x evansii in California: http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/p_x_evansii_img3.htm Nice pic...if it is a meconostigma, i'd like to use the pics in the meconostigma site, if you can tell me where it's located....
I am in Cuernavaca Mexico and the Philodendron is at a friend's house, they have had it for at least 25 years. Since the pictures are mine, you can use at your will. Thank you
Since meconostigmas are not native to mexico, and this hybrid definitely isn't, you might want to ask him where they got it. The local plant store? I'll be going to Cancun and the Riviera Maya next week (saturday Aug 2)...I'm sure I'll see lots of the world-traveling P. bipinnatifidum ;-) Btw, I also maintain a site on leafcutter ants...you guys probably have Atta mexicana in your area... http://www.blueboard.com/leafcutters/
I wonder why you state that the plant in photo is not a meconostigma, looking at the picture in the URL you posted and it is exactly like the one I often see at my friend's house. They (my friends) don't know what that plant is, they really don't care much for plants, but I am a plant nut and have a big garden where I spend most of the day working. Enjoy your holidays in Can Cun
Just wanted to be sure...lotsa philo leaves look the same, but the stem of meconostigmas are definitive. Yeah, we'll be renting a car and driving over to tulum and the cenotes over there as well...
Grapevine Newsletter 1952 I made a big edit on the article: On the Origins of Philodendron x evansii http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/rencana/p_x_evansii_origins.htm It now has a scan of the original newsletter from 1952 that announced the arrival of the new hybrid, Philodendron x evansii http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/rencana/images/grapevine_1952.jpg ENJOY!!!! :)
I'll read it. Julius, Leland, Ron Weeks and I have discussed this hybrid many times. I have a specimen that came from a fully grown group of plants in Tampa, FL more than 25 years old. Russ Hammer gathered the plant for me with the owner's permission. The plants were well over 15 feet tall! I have photos somewhere of the group where my specimen originated. I have several pages of notes on this plant but have never worked up a page for my website. As I'm sure you know there has been a fair amount of differing opinions on this hybrid. One of the problems is it tends to be variable.
I read somewhere that there has been some legal problems with it, which is why so few nurseries offer it today...not sure what's with that. And yes, I've seen the posts on aroid-l about it. It seems people have had a hard time replicating evans' hybrid when crossing P. speciosum and P. bipinnatifidum?
All the more reason to wonder if it really isn't a species that isn't well understood. Maybe someone will do a DNA on it and settle the argument. Natural variation can certainly make life confusing for those of us who are trying to understand all there is to understand about aroids.
The Evans newsletter specifically states that they produced P. x evansii from a cross between P. speciosum and P. bipinnatifidum. You mean people are debating whether they lied and got that plant from somewhere instead? You know, I kinda remember that thought being fielded in an old discussion.
I have no idea. Supposedly the plant has been seen in far western Brazil and I believe into Peru. I'd have to check my notes again because at this hour of the morning I can't recall where I learned that. But as I recall variations of the plant have been seen in the wild. Marcus or Eduardo would probably be a better source of verifying that. If I ever get to sleep tonight I'll dig out all my notes tomorrow.
I found this note from Julius. This was written close to two years ago. At first Leland thought the photos I originally sent of the large plants in Tampa were something else but it does appear Simon Mayo has also been doing at least some research on this plant, "After much thought (and a BIG ''thank you' to Ron Weeks for his invaluable advice and sharing of his vast knowledge of this group of Philodendrons with me/us!) I THINK the plant in question shown in the photos taken in Mr. Hickman`s yard (?) may turn out to be P. ""Evansii", an OLD hybrid that used to be produced for sale back in the days when Philodendrons were produced commercially landscaping from seed obtained by hand-pollination, NOT by tissue culture. From all accounts it was the result of a cross of P. bipinnatifidum and P. speciosum, we don`t know for certain which species was the ''mother'' plant. I base my opinion, not having seen photos of the blooms, on the following-- a) The plants in the photo seem to be VERY old, perhaps 25+ or even older, which would put them at planting back around the time when P. "Evansii" was used in landscaping designs. b) The leaves match specimens I`I've seen on P. "Evansii', such as the big population at Fairchild near the Library. One item I have not solved as yet is that I have seen plants on two groups of old Philodendrons said to be P. "Evansii" which were planted more than 25 years ago at a high-end commercial residential area in Jupiter, Florida. One set had smoother leaf blades and bore blooms w/ lipstick-pink spathes, the other group had bullate-textured (bumpy/rough) leaf blades, and bore blooms w/ virginal white-colored spathes (interior surfaces). Many of the ''secrets'' of these old plants will be lost as time goes by. As far as I know, P. "Evansii'' is no longer available anywhere. Ron has attempted a re-creation, but in his opinion the vast variations he obtained in the seedlings might have been the result of the ''mixed genes'' in the plant of P. bipinnatifidum used in his efforts. In considering this, it came to me that the plants grouped under the name P. speciosum might be part of the problem, as a broad range of shapes and sizes of plants collected in Brazil seem to fall under this broad umbrella of a single name, and we will never know which one was used in the original production of seed which produced P. "Evansii". The same statement can be made for the species P. bipinnatifidum, as it also occurs in many shapes and forms throughout a VERY wide range in Brazil, and with a couple different colored spathes, according to the experts. Aloha. Julius" The Aloha was a result of Leland's input into the conversation and as you know he always greets us with the appropriate Hawaiian greetings. Also, as I reread some of my notes I recalled the plants in the photos I originally received were closer to 25 feet tall but almost all had to be tied to the eve of the house to keep them from falling over. The photos are not mine so it is best I don't publish them here but if you'd like send me a private note and I'll forward as many as I can locate to you. I think Julius has likely hit the "nail on the head" and P. speciosum may or may not have been one of the actual parents and as a result so far the plant hasn't been duplicated. The second parent may well be a plant that is similar in appearance to P. speciosum. You might consider asking Simon what his latest findings have revealed.
Ah, I get it. So the problem is that what Evans originally called P. speciosum might have not have been the P. speciosum we designate as such today; or P. speciosum exhibits such broad variability in the wild we are not sure which one they used to create P x evansii since no one has so far been able to recreate P x evansii exactly.
That is exactly my understanding of what Julius was saying. It may not be that they purposely gave bad information they simply may not have had "all" the information necessary. As horticulture often goes, without a positive ID from a qualified aroid botanist on the species involved who knows what the parents may have been. Using related species to "speciosum" could replicate the plant but which second parent species do you try?
Good discussion. Do you mind if I add this possibility to that article? I'll reference you, julius, and leland looks like.
I have no objection what-so-ever. I would suggest you run the quote by Julius again before using it since Ju-Bo is always gathering new information to his incredible brain and might want to do a slight edit before it is used. In fact, I should have done that myself before posting it here!
