Looking for Tree Nurseries, I want to experiment with tree hardiness

Discussion in 'Gymnosperms (incl. Conifers)' started by Tree Guy, Jan 25, 2008.

  1. Tree Guy

    Tree Guy Member

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    I live in Geraldton, Ontario Canada (Zone 1b, Canada Zone Hardiness Index) and own an >acre property. Around here people know me as the guy that grows trees. I am looking for nurseries that sell and ship small tree seedlings. I enjoy experimenting with trying to push the limits of plant hardiness. I have many tree species that are found much further south. Listed below are some of the species I have growing (for those who are interested).

    In my collection, the larger trees I planted that have been growing for the past +/- ten years without winter damage are the Sugar maples, (Acer saccharum); Red maples, (Acer rubrum); Silver maples, (Acer saccharinum); American beech, (Fagus grandifolia); Basswoods, (Tilia americana); Butternut, (Juglans cinerea); Ironwood, (Ostrya virginiana); E. White pine, (Pinus strobus); Red pine, (Pinus resinosa); Eastern hemlock, (Tsuga Canadensis); Ohio buckeye, (Aesculus glabra); Colorado spruce, (Picea pungens) and Norway spruce, (Picea abies), most are around 4 metres tall. I am particularly proud of my 2.5 metre Serbian spruce trees, (Picea omorika).

    Smaller trees that I’ve started by seed 2 years ago are the Kentucky coffee trees, (Gymnocladus dioicus) and Pitch pines, (Pinus Rigida). I had 100% germination and survival to so far.

    I would like to expand by trying some other trees. I would like to try species that will challenge me (my experiment – success or loss?). I have good micro sites that protect from the winter desiccation. The soils are derived mainly of dry/fresh medium sands with a silty fresh/moist depression on the property.

    I am looking to acquire Red spruce, (Picea rubens); Brewers spruce, (Picea breweriana) and Fraser fir, (Abies fraseri). Would anyone know what nurseries carry these species and whether they ship them here in Canada or from the States to Canada? I would prefer either small containerized stock or bare root. I’ve found that survival is better because they have time to establish protected beneath our ample snow in the winter.

    Thanks.
     
  2. lhuget

    lhuget Active Member

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  3. Michael F

    Michael F Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator 10 Years of Activity

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    Some others to try from Europe:
    Macedonian Pine (Pinus peuce)
    Swiss Pine (Pinus cembra)
    Scots Pine (Pinus sylvestris)
    Bosnian Pine (Pinus heldreichii)
    European Larch (Larix decidua)
     
  4. Ottawa-Zone5

    Ottawa-Zone5 Active Member

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  5. lhuget

    lhuget Active Member

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    As a former 0 zone gardener for 13 years I would appreciate if you kept us posted. Wonderful idea to try fruit trees OttawaZone5. "Make a garden and they will come " is my motto. I'm committed to busting my zonal envelop and a cheerleader for those of us in the less hardy zones. Looking forward to hearing more on this Tree Guy.

    Les
     
  6. jaro_in_montreal

    jaro_in_montreal Active Member

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    Iseli sells Brewer's spruce - you can order through your local (Ontario) representative.
    See http://www.iseli-nursery.com/articles/SalesMap2006.htm
    (In Quebec, I order through Jean-Francios Devoyault, at Au Jardin de Jean-Pierre).
    My two Brewer's spruces have been growing here for 3y -- no issues so far.
     
  7. jaro_in_montreal

    jaro_in_montreal Active Member

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    That reminds me -- this year I'm getting a few Larix lyallii from Forestfarm nurseries, another one you might want to try.
    That shopping list also includes Pinus monophylla, but that might be too much of a stretch for your zone....
     
  8. Michael F

    Michael F Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator 10 Years of Activity

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    Pinus aristata, P. longaeva, P. balfouriana are certainly worth trying.
     
  9. Tree Guy

    Tree Guy Member

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    Firstly, I’m not a great writer, so bear with me.

    Wow, thanks to all of you who have responded to my posting. Being new on this forum, I didn’t know what to expect or how many of you would reply. I have to admit that this is a great way to share ideas and find sources for those who are interested in this kind of stuff. Otherwise, it’s hard to find specific information on your own.

    Being a “hobby grower†who enjoys “pushing the hardiness limits†of trees, the information I received from you will help, both the suggestions and the sources. I’m now considering trying some additional tree species.

    I will let you know how things are periodically on my zone 1b property. I know, (at least in these parts) people don’t try growing non-indigenous plants because no one wants to lose their investments. I just do it for my own enjoyment.

    I still am hoping to hear about any nursery sources to obtain Red spruce, (Picea rubens) and Fraser fir, (Abies fraseri) seedlings.

    My first posting that also mentioned Brewers spruce, (Picea Breweriana) - found one nursery source (thank you). I should have also asked about where to obtain seed for these 3 mentioned tree species and suppliers who ships to Canada? Once again, thanks and keep your suggestions and nursery sources coming.
     
  10. smivies

    smivies Active Member

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    Others to consider....
    Pinus koraiensis, albicaulis, ponderosa (several large in Edmonton), nigra (Edmonton again, not so hot looking), pumila, siberica
    Pseudotsuga menziesii (grows wild in Banff)
    Tsuga mertensia, candensis
    Abies lasiocarpa (grows up to tree line in Whitehorse, Yukon)

    Rhora's Nut Farm for some of them.
    Golden Bough Tree Farm for others.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2008
  11. drdna

    drdna Member

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    Hi Jaro! I saw that you intend to get a few larix lyallii from forestfarm this year. I tried last fall and they told me they couldn't ship them to me because the phyto inspector wanted to see an import permit before agreeing. This year, I have my permit but when I went to look at forestfarm's site They didn't seem to have any. I'm going to send them an e-mail just so they can confirm they still sell them because I'm having trouble finding this tree anywhere else. Do you know of any other place they sell them (as seedlings or bare root)? I'm also trying to find Pinus jeffreyi and Pinus balfouriana. I know they sell those back at Rhora's but last year I ordered from them and didn't get good results, I lost three out of six seedlings. I didn't buy their inoculant, I thought that at a price of 23$/bag for each different species, it was a bit expensive...
     
  12. KarinL

    KarinL Well-Known Member 10 Years of Activity

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    Tree Guy, it would help if you said which nurseries you are already aware of so that we don't duplicate your own efforts. That said, I'm not going to go searching for your specific trees but will mention three sources that may have some stock for you: Golden Bough Tree Farm in Ontario, T&T seeds (and live stock) in the prairies, and Fraser's Thimble Farm in BC. All do mail order trees - whether they have anything you want, only you can decide!

    Edit: sorry, I missed that Smivies has already mentioned Golden Bough. After reading Rhora's, I skimmed and thought it said Grimo's. So I'll contribute Grimo's instead!
    http://www.grimonut.com/
     
  13. jaro_in_montreal

    jaro_in_montreal Active Member

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    Sorry about the confusion.
    When I placed my order with Forestfarm late last October, they certainly had L. liallii on their web site.
    When I saw it, I jumped on the opportunity, and added a few other things to my list.
    Of course I have an import permit.
    My order was confirmed with a message saying that "I believe that all plants on your list are available. Assuming that,...."

    After posting my reply to Tree Guy four days ago, I went to look at the Forestfarm web site again, and was VERY surprised that they no longer had L. lyallii in their selection !

    Now I'm wondering what's going to happen:

    One possibility is that they simply ran out of the plants following my order, and updated their web site to avoid further inquiries (in which case I will hopefully get my plants).

    Otherwise, I fear they never had them in the first place, and I won't get anything. That would be a bummer. I had a similar experience with Greer Gardens, who used to have L. lyallii in their catalogue too (I did get all my other stuff though, in excellent condition).

    Anyway, I will let you know how it turns out this spring, and if I hear about any other place that might have the plants.

    I'm also curious to know whether the ones I'm supposed to get are true seedlings, or grafts on some other larch -- I heard that L. lyallii grafts on L. decidua root stock are better growers, but may have trouble producing a leader....
     
  14. Tree Guy

    Tree Guy Member

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    KarinL,

    Sorry, Ive been off a couple of days.

    The nurseries I'm now aware of are;

    Bow Point Nursery Ltd.
    Shallow Creek Nursery Ltd.
    DNA Gardens
    Iseli Nursey Inc. (U.S.)
    ForestFarm (U.S.)
    Rhora's Nut Farm and Nursery
    Golden Bough Tree Nursery
    Grimo Nut Nursery
    TNT Seeds
    Fraser's Thimble Farm
    PineneedleFarms
    Van Den Nest Nursery

    Thanks to all of you, who have helped me find these nurseries.

    Tree Guy
     
  15. palustris

    palustris Member

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    Why do not try seeds its cheaper whith more choice www.treeshrubseeds.com or www.trees-seeds.com, www.gardennorth.com
    its a very interesting experience also experiment trees from south here near Thetford mines zone 3b/4a from seeds taxodium distichum, aesculus octandra, juglans nigra acer pseudoplatanus etc etc
    We are a few trees enthousiasth that experiment whith trees at www.arboquebecium.com its in french
    One of us grows over 130 species of trees in zone 4 near Trois-Rivières
     
  16. pinenut

    pinenut Active Member 10 Years of Activity

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    T&T Seeds out of Winnipeg has larches that have flourished for me and apples and crabapples that have not. Rhora's Nut Farm out of the Niagara pen. has a great selection of nut trees. Two of his Pinus sibirica are barely hanging on for me. And I got a couple of Pinus cembra from Canadian tire a few years back (never seen 'em for sale since) that are doing really well.
    Junglekeeper gave me a source for seed a while back: sandemanseeds.com from France. They seem to have seeds for everything. So I'm trying a bunch of stuff from seed on the shaky theory that if its born here it stands a better chance of surviving here.
    Carl
    postscript: There's a guy in Dawson growing apple trees, but I think they're in a greenhouse.
     
  17. pinenut

    pinenut Active Member 10 Years of Activity

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    Think there's any appetite for a trial forum for people who like messing around with out-of-zone stuff?
    Carl
     
  18. lhuget

    lhuget Active Member

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    I think a forum on pushing the zonal envelop would be excellent.

    Les
     
  19. jaro_in_montreal

    jaro_in_montreal Active Member

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    As promissed, here's a photo of two of the 4 Larix lyallii I got from Forestfarm this spring.
    They appear to be well on their way to establishing themselves, but its also clear that they are very slow growers....

    BTW, to see which conifers require an import permit, go to this web site:
    http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/plaveg/internat/d-94-14lste.shtml
     

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