Steve, I'll add the name Balaoanum to the tag. Thanks for the correction. Has any of yours produced a spathe yet? Windy
That's so odd - the leaf shape and apparent texture are all but identical to the A. cupulospathum, but the inflorescence is radically different. I'd accept A. balaoanum if you could match the inflorescence... As the 18th is my birthday and I have been promised a trip to the QBG, I will have the opportunity to ask the curators what they think it is. More than likely, they will simply say "Anturio" but they may know more.... It never hurts to ask!
Beth, if you are talking about my link, Dr. Croat said it! I didn't! He tells the people at Ecuagenera what the species are as well as the botanical gardens in Ecuador. He is the world's top expert on Ecuadorian aroids and is currently writing the book! If you wish to disagree with him here is his personal email address: Thomas.Croat@mobot.org
Steve - goodness no! If Dr. Croat says it's marmoratum, it's marmoratum! Farbeit from me to disagree with the experts until I know a whole lot more about the genus. I will have to start quoting the posts I'm talking about..... Please allow me to explain myself. I was referring to Windy's post identifying the various Anthuriums in the photos she provided. The leaf shape of the Anthurium we are currently questioning is extremely similar to the A. cupulospathum that she posted, but the inflorescences are quite different - red spathe vs. white spathe, although both have pendant inflorescent habits. The leaf shape and structure is also very similar to A. balaoanum - I was asking to see an inflorescence of that, if either of you have one, to see if it matches with mine. Although.... I think one of the wild ones I have originally up on Page one might be A. cupulospathum, on closer inspection of Windy's photos....
The one I identified as Anthurium balaoanum is the plant Dr. Croat identified as that species. The others I can't comment on. A. balaoanum is often sold as Anthurium guildingii but incorrectly on many websites. I am hardly surprised Windy was given that name since it is passed out like candy on the internet. I can show you at least 20 sites that sell A. balaoanum with the name Anthurium guildingii. On my site on the page for Anthurium baloanum I give his exact description as to the detailed differences in the two species. A. balaoanum is often known by other names in Ecuador. Please read that page for a detailed explanation as provided by Dr. Croat. There is also a photo and description to see what and where a collective vein is.
You know Beth, I have gone back to your posted Aroid of the month, and I now truly think it's something different. The blade may look somewhat similar, but it's longer and narrower, and isn't the same as what I have posted as Cupulispathum. I think that the inflorescence proves that too! Oh, and there is no red mark in the sinus. Also, that one Anthurium that you show in the third set, first photo, looks similar too, but the young blades have reddish tint to their edges and I have never seen that before on any of the Cupulispathums I have seen growing. Also the red marking in the sinus is much more prominent. And the sinus is much wider. So it's probably a totally different species as well. Don't you just love these plants? Too much fun!!! So anyway, I am going to say close, very close......yet different. Again, thanks for sharing, Windy
Hmmmm.... Now it's even more imperative to ask the QBG folks about it. Maybe we have a new species.....
From what I understand in Ecuador there are new species being ID constantly. My question is (in general), are they all 'new' species or are some natural hybrids?
Yes, Dr. Tom is definitely an authority, and is currently working on IDing many Anthurium species native to Ecuador. In this aspect his job probably seems endless, but all the work he accomplishes will be of the greatest value to many of us Anthurium enthusiasts. My guess is DNA is the bottom line on finding out if an Anthurium in the wild is a true species or a hybrid, but who is willing to dedicate their life to this undertaking? Oh wait, What about you? You're there(in Ecuador right?) and have a scientific interest in the genius.....Wow, Beth, think about it! We need someone like you to help out!
If Beth were working with the right people, it could be of very much help. Dr. Croat now has a student assistant who is doing DNA work and part of their collective goal is an attempt to try and figure out which species are true species and which are naturally created hybrids. Anthurium are one of the most promiscuous of all the aroid species and the majority of species will accept pollen from any other plant within their section. if you don't understand the idea of "sections", botanists have divided the Anthurium (and other genera) into scientific sections which contain similar genetic backgrounds, basal structures and other peculiarities which allows them to be identified as to a "group". I do my best to list the "section" on most of my webpages. The largest section is Section Pachyneurium which contains all the "birds nest" forms. Dr. Croat personally owns the world's largest collection of Section Pachynerium species which I have visited and photogrpahed. He even allowed me to bring back seeds. It has been overly demonstrated in Indonesia anyone with a camel hair brush can take pollen from one plant within that section and cross it to any other species (or hybrid) within the section. Although the Indonesian people are great collectors they are also creating an enormous amount of confusion by creating many new hybrids and continuing to call a great number of them "Anthurium jenmanii" or "Anthurium hookeri". It has been well documented that there is little parentage of either Anthurium jenmanii or Anthurium hookeri in either! Both of those plants have very specific structures which can be quickly identified if you know what you are seeking. I have detailed explanation on both on my website. As an example, Anthurium hookeri (the real species) produces white seed berries. I'd bet you can go right now and find someone on eBay selling an "Anthurium hookeri" with a photo of a pile of red berries! It is not the species! In the case of Anthurium jenmanii (the real species), that plant has very ladder like veins that are evenly spaced. According to Dr. Croat, it doesn't produce a reddish leaf. But tons of plants with the name "Anthurium jenmanii" with newly red leaves are sold and do not have the scaliform (ladder-like) leaf veins. You can find an older thread on this very forum where I was highly criticized because I published an email from Dr. Croat that pointed that out. Tons of people wrote me very nasty personal email calling me a liar. I didn't make it up, I just quoted Dr. Croat's work. So yes, Beth. If you have an interest in DNA, get involved. That has become the only way some of this confusion will be resolved. The good thing is many botanical science schools are now encouraging students to become involved in just such projects. But the work is endless! There are now 800 known species of Anthurium and Dr. Croat finds at least 30 new ones every summer. The big problem, due to the natural variation within these species, is figuring out which ones are actually new species and which have simply been cross pollinated. This is one of the exact subjects Tom and I will be discussing in two weeks and I'm told I will be able to meet one of his assistants who is doing this kind of work. Get involved. Read! Study! And learn. That is the only way all of us will gain useful scientific knowledge. Below is a photo of a section Pachynerium plants that Tom has in his collection. It has no a scientific name even though fully grown. This is likely the only one of this type in the world of private collectors. I'd kill for a chunk! The longest blade is close to 8 feet! That is not much shy of 3 meters.
Wow, Steve - those leaves must be what, 8 feet long? Did he say where he collected it? Steve and Windy, as a bit of background I'm an amateur botanist (and have been since about age 8), so I understand sectioning and a number of the other odd concepts, and I've been reading all of the material I have available to me here in Ecuador on this genus since the bug bit me. I'd love to be able to contribute to the furthering of Aroid knowledge here, especially for the Anthuriums, which I am completely fascinated by. I'm young, which gives me the advantage of lots of time to learn. In addition to this, I have an unaccepted degree in organic chemistry (so I know how to use the big analysis machines) and a love of labwork. If I can help, I'd love to. On a different but related note - I want to join the IAS but I don't have a credit card - do you think they'd take a postal money order?
The leaves do measure app. 8 feet. As to joining, without a doubt. You can find membership information here: http://www.aroid.org/ Mail the check to Tricia Frank made out to he International Aroid Society. The address is on the IAS website. Just click the membership info link on the left of the homepage. The next big meeting, The International Aroid Show, is at Fairchild Tropical Botanic Gardens in Miami and I believe it is the third weekend of September. You can find links on any of my aroid pages that gives the dates. Tell Tricia that Windy and Steve sent you!
That's good news and bad news - I can't afford to fly to Miami. Boo hoo hoo! I'd really love to attend..... But maybe next time Dr. Croat is in Ecuador I can catch up with him.
Beth, Start saving! I made the trek to Miami last year for the IAS Show, and had the BEST time! I too wish I could go this year, but seriously doubt it. Last year I was able to meet friends that I had only known through correspondence, visited with old friends, picked up some new plants, viewed beautiful collections, and had a week of extreme fun! I can't say enough about it. You will enjoy the IAS. Good to hear you are joining, and hope you will contribute an article or two to the newsletter as you become more involved with the Aroid family. Dr. Tom is a wonderful person and is extremely generous with his valuable time in helping layman like me. I do hope you two can hook up in the future. Take care, Windy
Perhaps next year for the show - I'm currently in the process of buying a chunk of cloud forest to live in (lol, so I can grow and study as many Aroids as possible!!!), and who knows how long that's going to take. If the visation process is anything to go on, I might have land by Christmas. If I do get hired by the City of Quito's Ministry of Culture I'll have a better chance at attending in '09.
