Hardy Citrus for British Columbia

Discussion in 'Citrus' started by mr.shep, Oct 15, 2005.

  1. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,698
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Denver,Colorado USA
    ..........A browns select Satsuma has flowers on the new and old growth which I find a bit of a surprise. I wonder if this (flowering on new growth) is typical of certain varieties?...............

    All citrus varieties commonly produce flowers on both new and old growth. Flowers form in clusters in the leaf axils of the PRECEDING growth flush, but single in the axils of a JUST COMPLETED growth flush. Citrus flowers open primarily from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. with the peak period about noon. They never close; the petals merely shed a few days later. - Millet
     
  2. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    North Vancouver
    Barrie, the pomello X's fruitlet is hanging on. It is quite small and still green. None of my new Changsha's have flowered. All my Meyer lemons that are in the ground are doing well.
    I spoke to Bob Duncan a couple of weeks back and he says the Dunstan Citrumelo that he has growing un-protected outside does extremely well in our PNW climate.

    Millet, you hit the nail on the head! (I'm not surprised) The new growth has single flowers and the older growth developed more cluster like formation.

    These to photos show a "speckled" and somewhat distorted growth on the leaves on some of my citrus (potted plants only) any Idea what may be causing this to occur?
    The leaves are not falling off...
    DSC00205 (Large).JPG

    DSC00204.JPG

    In the lower photo, the leaves are actually greener than depicted.

    Thanks again, Greg
     
  3. K Baron

    K Baron Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    North Vancouver, B.C., Canada
    My guess is over watering.... or the wrong fertilizer mix... good luck...


    what is the soil medium?


    Too moist or too dry?
     
  4. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,698
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Denver,Colorado USA
    Greg, certainly looks like spider mite damage. Spider mites are VERY hard to see with the unaided eye. A 1 percent UltraFine Horticultural Oil spray that covers the upper and lower leaf surfaces late in the afternoon should take care of it. A soapy water spray should also work, but several repeated application might me required. If you have a strong magnifying glass a careful inspection of the leaves will revel the mites. If the infestation is bad enough you should see some spider type webbing. Never ever spray citrus in the heat of the day. - Millet
     
  5. LPN

    LPN Well-Known Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,488
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Lantzville, Vancouver Island
    Greg ... here's a couple of pics of how my Changsha and Owari are doing. I threw in a pic of my Key lime as well. Changsha has small fruit set and the Owari is about to bloom.

    Cheers, LPN (Barrie)
     

    Attached Files:

  6. leapfrog

    leapfrog Active Member

    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Victoria BC Canada
    My in ground Meyer Lemon has produced lots of leafy growth this spring, with 8 or more shoots of 8 to 10 inches, and lots of new leaves.

    Not so much success with flowering this spring, however. I had a grand total of five buds. One dropped before it opened but the other 4 are nicely formed and quite large. One opened last week.

    I had 2 dozen lemons last year - this year it looks like I'll be lucky to get 2 or 3. Oh well, I'll keep the plastic cover on it well into the spring next year. This year I took it off in mid February.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,698
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Denver,Colorado USA
    Leapfrog, just, a short note. If you keep the plastic on the Meyer until late spring, that will decrease your chance of getting a good crop of lemons, not help it. - Millet
     
  8. leapfrog

    leapfrog Active Member

    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Victoria BC Canada
    Won't let you get off that easily, Millet! :-)

    Not that I'm doubting your knowledge on this point, but I'm surprised by your advice, as it seems counterintuitive.

    Here's my reasoning:

    Typically the last frost here is in late February, with the temperature very rarely going below about -1 or -2 C after the end of January.

    Under the plastic mini greenhouse, the daytime temperature in February and March will average over +10C, which, together with some fertilizing, should stimulate growth.

    Early leafy growth and flower development should be better with earlier daytime heat and fertilizer.

    If I'm able to get lots of flower buds, a relatively high percentage wouldn't survive as the nights undercover of the green house might be as low as +2 or +3 C on a few occasions (when there is no overnight cloud cover), causing some bud drop.

    Last year I have over 100 flower buds, with perhaps 40 surviving to develop fruit. I picked about a dozen immature lemons to encourage the ones I left on the tree to grow bigger. So if I was able to get say 50 buds, I might expect 10 or 20 to fruit. This would result in a better yield than I'm expecting this year (5 buds with hopefully 3 or 4 lemons maturing).

    I had posted a thread on this site earlier asking whether or not fruit development and leaf development might alternate in successive years. Lat year I had lots of fruit but few new leaves. This year there is lots of new leafy growth but only a few flowers. Any comments on this?
     
  9. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,698
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Denver,Colorado USA
    Leapfrog, after reading all of the additional information supplied in your last posting, I will change my answer to - PERHAPS YES AND PERHAPS NO.
    You see, citrus trees never ever produce flower buds, all buds produced by a citrus tree are always vegetative buds, that will ONLY grow into foliage, and never ever become flowers. This is UNLESS the tree goes through a process called differentiation, where the vegetative bud is biologically and biochemically (almost magically) changed from the vegetative bud, into a floral bud, in a process not yet fully understood. How this happens, is only by a period of cool weather. For a citrus tree to produce a good crop of fruit it must received 850 hours of uninterrupted cool temperatures(<68F lower is better) if the tree had produced a heavy crop the preceding year. 650 collective hours of cool weather, if the tree had not produced a crop, or if it only produced a light crop, the previous year. So you see getting a crop to harvest, has nothing to do with how much growth you can obtain from your tree. In fact if you try to obtain maximum growth by higher temperatures, the tree will produce leaves and not fruit. When I first read you post concerning protecting the tree from the cold by enclosing the tree in a structure, I thought you were talking about higher temperatures than your tent greenhouse is able to provide. If your tree is not blooming, therefore not fruiting, this year, it is because it has not received enough cool hours during the past winter. - Millet
     
  10. leapfrog

    leapfrog Active Member

    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Victoria BC Canada
    Thanks, Millet. This is all news to me and extremely helpful.

    Last winter we had the coldest winter in ten years, with two cold spells. On those occasions, in lave November and January, it got to -6 C in the vicinity of the lemon tree. When it gets cold here it stays cold for several days and nights. Because we are at 48 degrees latitude, there is very little day time heating in the winter months.

    As I was concerned that the plastic cover alone would only generate a degree or two of additional heat overnight, I had constructed a simple heating system consisting a short string of ten or so 5 watt Christmas lights wrapped around a wire cage surrounding the tree that I turned on continuously for 3 or 4 days during each cold spell. This generated quite a bit of heat, and it got to as high as almost 20 C inside the plastic "tent" with the lights on, even at night. So it would appear that I didn't give the tree the requisite 850 hours of uninterrupted cool temperatures.

    My solution: I'll unscrew about 1/2 of the light bulbs, and monitor it next winter to ensure that the temperature under the plastic greenhouse doesn't get above about 10 C next winter, if we get any cold spells. We'll see how this affects flower production.

    By the way, I found two more flowers on the tree yesterday, so I'm hoping for 4 or 5 lemons this year.
     
  11. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    North Vancouver
    Just a little update. 2 of my meyers (one in the ground and another in a pot) are heading into full bloom again. also my pomello Xs has another bloom on it as well as my yuzuquat is flowering for the first time. I would have to say that the fruit is not growing as much as I had hoped or expected.My Satsumas are only the size of a regular marble - perhaps it is to do with the slow start this spring or the lack of consistent sunshine this year.
     
  12. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    North Vancouver
    October update, I imported another batch of hardy citrus this week substantially adding to my collection. I will up date my list soon. Some of the notable additions are:
    Yuzu,
    Nippon orangequat (Satsuma X kumquat)
    Sunquat (aka lemonquat)
    Chinotto orange (Key-no-toe) a favorite with italians
    Kishu - a seedless golfball sized satsuma
    Morton Citrange
    Non hardy:
    Trovita navel Orange

    I had a visit from the British Columbias Citrus Guru, Mr Bob Duncan yesterday. I gave him some budwood from my Harvey lemon and my Croxton grapefruit.

    Greg.
     
  13. LPN

    LPN Well-Known Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,488
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Lantzville, Vancouver Island
    Looks like a fine selection of citrus Greg! You'll be competing with Bob in no time for the "guru" title. haha!

    Cheers, LPN (Barrie)
     
  14. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,698
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Denver,Colorado USA
    Congratulations, Greg. - Millet
     
  15. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    North Vancouver
    Here is a update of my collection - most of which is considered as hardy citrus.
    The NH is the non hardy varieties. Most of the hardy varieties can withstand some freezing down to-5c to -12c (10f) providing a number of factors are present. Those marked with a * are in the ground.

    My collection includes:

    Lemons:
    Eureka (NH)
    Meyer*
    Lisbon (NH)
    Harvey

    Lime:
    Bearss (NH)

    Satsumas:
    St Anne*
    Kishu
    Owari
    Browns Select
    Changsha
    China 9

    Misc:
    Croxton Grapefruit*
    Morton Citrange
    Juanita Tangerine*
    Thomasville Citrangequat
    Nippon Orangequat
    10 degree tangerine (3+3?)*
    Yuzu
    Yuzuquat
    Dunstan Citrumelo
    Pomelo X PT (from Georgia)
    US 119
    Lemonquat
    Chinotto Orange
    Poncrus Trifoliata*
    Flying Dragon
    Changshu kumquat
    Campbell Valencia (NH)
    Trovita Navel (NH)

    We are going into winter #2 with only one casualty last year.

    Greg
     
  16. K Baron

    K Baron Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    North Vancouver, B.C., Canada
    Greg

    Is the Citrus located at or near sea level? I wish to attempt Citrus in situe out in Port

    Moody,at sea level, and S.W. exposure...
     
  17. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    North Vancouver
    kelly, my elevation is 500 feet above sea near exit 19 on highway 1. I am on a slight slope and have good drainage. Last winter I had my citrus protected with those large Christmas lights for about 25 nights and about 10 days. Mainly because I didn't want to loose my fruit on the young bushes. The rest I kept in my garage - unheated. This year I bought a small greenhouse from CDN Tire - I am going to set it up some time in December and gradually add some heat to induce some growth and or flowering on some of the potted citrus and Avocados. At least that is the plan.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2007
  18. K Baron

    K Baron Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    North Vancouver, B.C., Canada
    Greg

    Is your garage naturally lit, and regarding the avocado, is there a minimum temp.

    that must be achieved over the winter months, I have tossed all my avocados due to

    the change in humidity levels. I was also using the wrong potting medium. 100% Coir .


    Should be mixed with sand? right?

    Kelly
     
  19. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    North Vancouver
    Kelly, I have a 4x4 window plus fluorescent lights on a timer. I brought my avocados in from the states 1 1/2 years ago. they are hardy types -9c and -11c. I have been using potting mix I bought at Costco seems to work for me. I am NOT a expert on soils :(
    I understand Avocados need 72f consistently in order to bloom.
     
  20. K Baron

    K Baron Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    North Vancouver, B.C., Canada
    Greg, thank you for the tips. Amazing to hear that Avocados can sustain such frigid conditions. The potting medium that I purchased last spring from Costco, unfortunately stunted all my plants and seedlings. It had a very coarse texture unlike most bagged potting soil.
    I look forward to propagating new varieties of Citrus at sea level.
     
  21. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    North Vancouver
    I recently purchased a copy of Hardy Citrus for the Southeast by Tom McClendon .
    A very informative beginners guide to growing citrus in zone 8 (USDA) The purchase price is $12.00 from the Southeast Palm Society and is available through their website. With some adaptations it will give you some ideas on how to grow hardy citrus outdoors here in Greater Vancouver. Acidic varieties will be the best varieties to try as they require much less heat to ripen. The problem is sourcing these varieties.

    The BC Royal Museum is predicting that there will be commercial plantings of citrus in the Fraser Valley by the latter part of the century!

    Greg
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2007
  22. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,698
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Denver,Colorado USA
    It is a good thing that the BC "Royal" Museum is not my stock and bonds adviser. - Millet
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2007
  23. LPN

    LPN Well-Known Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,488
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Lantzville, Vancouver Island

    As a kid, my generation was told we'd be flying around on jet packs and visiting the moon for holidays. We certainly have more control over that than the weather, which I believe will become more unstable by the middle of the century. That instablity will make it difficult to reliably grow citrus commercially. It may be possible in the same type large commercial greenhouses that currently grow tomatoes and long english cukes.

    Cheers, Barrie.
     

    Attached Files:

  24. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    North Vancouver
    Barrie, Did you take this photo of Millets greenhouse from your jet pack?? :)
    I agree, don't sell off your stocks in sunkist - just yet.

    Greg
     
  25. LPN

    LPN Well-Known Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,488
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Lantzville, Vancouver Island
    Hey Greg ... That photo is one from a greenhouse on 41B St in South Delta that relatives of mine worked at until last year. It's a small operation compared to others in the area which are 10 X that size. Some are close to 50 acres under glass.

    Cheers, LPN (Barrie)
     

Share This Page