Hardy Citrus for British Columbia

Discussion in 'Citrus' started by mr.shep, Oct 15, 2005.

  1. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    This thread is an adaptation from comments
    posted in the thread below.

    Favorite Citrus Fruit

    A couple of quick thoughts to get this started.
    When doing research on hardy Citrus, try to
    keep in mind the eventual use for the fruit or
    for the juice, since some persuasion may be
    in order to have the trees come in. There are
    some Citrus that I think can grow outdoors in
    the Botanical Garden but I suspect some of
    them may not be altogether palatable for fresh
    eating. We can finagle with the juice and the
    pulp to make them more useful. A case in
    point is the Trifoliate Orange which can be
    rather acrid for fresh eating but for baking
    as a substitute for Citron in fruit and fruit
    added rum cakes can be used instead. The
    essence from the peel and the rind can also
    be used as zest in cooking.

    There are other alternate means of dealing
    with the fruit other than trying to eat one
    right off the tree and a split second later
    wished that we had not tried to do so (my
    reaction the first time I bit into a Kaffir
    Lime years ago. A Rangpur Lime (sour
    Mandarin) is a whole lot less bitter in
    comparison. The Rangpur you can try to
    eat and grimace while doing it but the
    Kaffir Lime I tried was a forget about it.
    Payback from a colleague was how I felt
    about things at the time).

    You will have to be careful in who will
    tell you the truth about the eating qualities
    of the hardy Citrus as many of them have
    been used for rootstocks in the past due
    to some of them having some cold tolerance
    such as citrangequat and the trifoliates.
    While at the same time not being in the
    same league perhaps for edibility or having
    the juice qualities of other more proven Citrus.

    I feel it is a worthwhile project to undertake,
    especially if there is genuine interest to bring
    plants in to grow in the Botanical Garden. You
    guys can do much of the needed homework for
    someone else of which all of you can dutifully
    congratulate yourselves later for when the trees
    do come in for you and others to see and enjoy.

    Jim
     
  2. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Contributor 10 Years

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    Yuzu, Citrus junos, doesn't come up very often in discussions. It has attractive foliage similar to that of a kumquat. According to Sunset, it is hardy to -18C/0F (zone 7) which explains why it is often used as rootstock in Japan. There appears to be many uses for the fruit in cuisine. I think it deserves more consideration.
     
  3. Wes North Van

    Wes North Van Active Member 10 Years

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    Meyer lemon
    I have two trees that have survived the last two winters outside here in lower North Vancouver. I live very close to Ambleside beach.
    When it gets really cold, -4C and lower, I cover it with a comforter and put a string of Christmas lights around them. I forgot to do this to one of them two years ago and it hit -9C that year and the tree survived but the fruit perished. It started to flower shortly after however and has recovered completely.
    The longer you keep the fruit on the tree, the sweeter the fruit gets and it can be eaten just like an orange.
    I believe this is the best bet for the PNW as far as quality of fruit is concerned along with the hardiness of the tree.
     
  4. Ron B

    Ron B Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    "Hardy" and "citrus" are two terms that really do not belong together, for the most part.
     
  5. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Thomasville Citrangequat; is hardy to about 10F (-12C). It is actually a very old cultivar developed by the USDA. It is a cross of a Willits Citrange and a Nagami Kimquat. It is considered the best Citrangequat yet developed. By the 1st of August the fruit makes a good lime substitute and becomes edible out of hand by Christmas. Because the fruit have a thin, sweet albedo, they make an excellent marmalade. - Millet
     
  6. Ron B

    Ron B Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    Like I said, "'Hardy' and 'Citrus'..." When I belonged to the local chapter in the 1970s, rhododendrons hardy to only 10F were referred to as "tender", because they would be killed/severely damaged periodically in all but the most favored local neighborhoods.
     
  7. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Ron B. your point is well taken. Even the "Hardy" citrus, varieties could easily need some protection on the few colder nights, even in the relatively warm Vancouver area. "Hardy" citrus, of course, are not hardy as are apples and other deciduous trees. You are correct. For citrus the term "hardy" is relative. But there in is the challenge, the fun, the very excitement of growing a plant that can grow on it own 95 percent of the time and relies on the grower for 5 percent of it's life. Growing a citrus tree in an area like BC is a wonder to the grower and his neighbors. So to do so, one must select from what is call the cold hardy citrus varieties. Ponciruss Trifoliata (Flying Dragon) would be hardy, but the fruit does not taste good. So for citrus trees that produce dessert quality fruit, or fruit that can be used for juice or preserves it must be selected from the Cold "Hardy" varieties. These are trees that are hardy generally to 10F-20F (-12C to -8). However, I agree with you the term "hardy," as it pertains to citrus is a relative term. Take Care. - Millet
     
  8. Ron B

    Ron B Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    Experiment station at Mount Vernon had a demonstration tunnel set up at one point showing how citrus and other tender fruits could be overwintered comparatively cheaply and easily.
     
  9. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    U.S.-119 is another cold "hardy' citrus that would be an exceptional tree to try. U.S. 119 is a complex cross. It is a citrumelo crossed with a sweet orange. Technically it is a {(Poncirus trifoliata x Citrus paradisi) x Citrus sinensis}, or in other words a cross of a trifoliate orange with a grapefruit, then that cross is again crossed with a sweet orange. U.S. 119 has LARGE grapefruit like leaves and orange fruit. What is really different about the foliage is that the tree has a mixture of unifoliate, bifoliate and trifoliate leaves, with trifoliate leaves dominating. The fruit is also very attractive, with a deep orange color and a smooth peel. The fruit's pulp has a very appealing rich orange color and few to no seeds. The taste is sweet with just a touch of trifoliate aftertaste. U.S. 119 has been touted to be hardy to 10F (-12C) after the tree has reached some maturity. Young plants have been injured by temperatures in the low 20s. The flavor is sweet orange, with very few off-flavorrs, good quality, which is rare in cold hardy citrus varieties. Can be eaten out of hand. Well worth a try. - Millet
     
  10. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

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    Millet, If you run across an reputable grower (hardy citrus) at the Southeast Citrus Expo next month, someone who is willing to ship to canada or at least supply a Phtosanitary certificate so we can legally import the plants into our country please advise us!
    I think there is sufficient interest here to make it worth while. Talking to a few friends
    I could probably get 10 to 15 plants on a 1st order! I think my canadian cohorts
    would agree that once we get past this "pioneering" stage I believe there is
    potentialy a large citrus market here on the west coast.

    When I was a kid in the 70s the only palm trees I saw was when I visited my
    cousins in southern california! Now I see thousands of palms flourishing around
    Vancouver!
    As mentioned on another thread, I am interested in : 10 degree tangerine, Hardy citrumelo, US 119 (orange?) and at your suggestion a Thomasville Citrangequat.
    If anyone has sources (Phyto'd) for these varities please advise.

    Greg
     
  11. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Gregn, Joe Lohnes and I both will be at the Cold Hardy Citrus Expo on November 19th. We always make it a top priority to visit with the growers, and usually purchase trees that interest us. I will centainly bring the subject of shipping to Canada or providing Canadian customers with a phyo-certificate. As Canada does not have a commerical citrus industry, and therefore no citrus trees to protect, I really do not understand why the Canadian government would require a phytosanitry certificate. No U.S. state regulates the shipment of citrus trees except California, Florida, Texas, Arizona and Lousiana, which are the commerical citrus growing states. Other than the states I just listed, citrus trees can be shipped in or out of all U.S. states with no regulation what-so-ever. - Millet
     
  12. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Millet, the Canadian government are running scared
    of SOD. Monrovia took a big hit with plants that
    were grown in another state and then brought into
    California. When those plants were to be shipped
    elsewhere and tested positive is when the SOD
    alarm went off allover.

    Canada looks at the big picture differently than the
    US does. We have our own tug of war to deal with
    from West of the Rockies and East of the Rockies.
    Many nurseries on the East Coast got much of there
    specialty Citrus from us out here. With the advent
    of more Citrus coming into areas of the East Coast,
    there has been a influx of Citrus going to East Coast
    nurseries that even as little as 10 years ago had none.
    It is tougher to get Citrus into California from Asia,
    South America and Cuba than it is to bring the plants
    into Florida. We have specific quarantine insects we
    are on guard for at all times and the Oriental and the
    Mediterranean Fruit Fly are two of them. Public
    enemy number one among insects is the Japanese
    Beetle that the East Coast is laden with. Since we
    are essentially feeding the entire East Coast with
    specialty crops it became essential for us out here
    not to have plants come in from East of the Rockies
    unless they have been fumigated.

    Another concern that not many people know about
    is that Canada was lax in their importing of plants
    and they have paid a big price with invasive plants
    that they did not want and certainly do not want
    now. Canada, Ontario mainly, as they were the hub
    for indoor growing Citrus in Canada for a while,
    got hurt with Tristeza from East Coast growers
    and nurseries. It is not that simple any more for
    a nursery in South Carolina to send plants into
    Canada without some kind of authenticity, not
    only of the plant material to be shipped but also
    to the credibility of the nursery or grower shipping
    the plants. To avoid the complications of proof
    from Canada's end, a phyo-certificate is all the
    proof that Canada needs to ensure the plants
    coming in are healthy and are disease and insect
    free. Canada is doing what they have to do.

    I learned the hard way with a Magnolia shipment
    coming in to me that some Eastern states do not
    require their mom and pop nurseries to have
    certificates, signifying that they are a licensed
    nursery with the state for the purpose of selling
    plant material. Another problem issue is that
    plant collectors on the East Coast want to sell
    some of their plants now and they have become
    a nursery in one respect as a growing source but
    in quite another respect they do not want to be
    a bona fide licensed nursery either.

    To legally sell to anyone in California, even
    a home gardener, the plants either have to come
    from a certified East Coast nursery or the plants
    have to be fumigated prior to their shipment or
    the plants will be fumigated here upon receipt
    by the county Ag Commissioner's office at the
    senders expense or the plants will be destroyed.
    Canada is essentially trying to do what we've done
    here for several years and that is monitor what
    comes in, in recent years with Texas and Arizona
    following our lead.

    Jim
     
  13. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Mr. Shep, what you say is certainly reasonable, and of course Canada has every right to take whatever course of action that its government and people wish. However, I assume many, if not most U.S. growers, especially smaller nurseries, such as the type that would specialize in unique plants like cold hardy citrus, would rather not be bothered with meeting the extra requirements. I presume, most would feel it would not be worth their time and effort. However, I will certainly ask around when at the Citrus Expo. - Millet
     
  14. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Renowned Contributor UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Thanks for the enlightening reply Jim.
     
  15. Ron B

    Ron B Esteemed Contributor 10 Years

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    I know a couple suppliers of rare plants that are or soon will be discontinuing shipments to Canada due to the recent development of costly fiascoes at the receiving end. In one case it was insisted that no documentation was found in the boxes with the plants, something the supplier told me could not possibly have been the case. (Maybe the inspector(s) opened the box, and a sudden gust came up and blew all the paperwork away - just as they happened to look in the other direction).
     
  16. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

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    Millet, I havent given up - nor do I want to.....
    Stan McKenzie was willing to get the state Agricultural inspector
    to Phyto the plants for $23 (which I was willing to pay)
    However the State inspector wanted the plants to be treated
    with product called "Talstar". Stan replied:
    "......I do apologize, but Im not willing
    to spend big bucks for a chemical that will only be of benefit to me on
    very rare occasions."
    Perhaps If he realizes that this is not as expensive as he may believe.
    This is a untapped citrus market here....
    Talk to him in November for me - that would be much appreciated.
    Thanks
    Greg
    Ron, to avoid what you wrote above, I would have them delivered to
    the american side of the border and I would import them in myself.
     
  17. Laaz

    Laaz Active Member

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    There is another very hardy Citrus named the Changsha Mandarin. This fruit is indeed very sweet without the bad after taste. The downside to this mandarin is it is full of seeds. Stan Mckenzie has just informed me that a friend of his from the U of GA has developed a seedless variety of the Changsha which should be released very soon. The Changsha is hardy down to about 5 F.

    Millet I will see you in a few weeks down here at the Citrus Expo.
     
  18. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

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    Laaz - I have seen that one on Stans web site. What is ' full of seeds ' ? 10 ,20..?
    Also on worldwide plant site run by mckenzie farms , Stan has a " hardy tangerine" listed
    do you know about this one?
    http://www.worldwideplants.com/hardy_citrus.htm
    The problem I forsee with growing citrus here (outside) is that SOME varieties may require more heat than Mother Nature can provide to ripen off the fruit - especially the late varieties like the Owari Satsuma.
    Does anyone know what varieties of China grown Mandarins we get here (in Vancouver)
    early october through to mid January? The ones in the box I bought yesterday are
    about 2 1/2 inches wide (6cm) smooth skinned and easy peeling - mostly seedless
    and some greenish colour on the skin.
    Thanks
    greg
     
  19. Laaz

    Laaz Active Member

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    The cold hardy Tangerine on Stan's (Also worldwideplants) is a Juanita Tangerine.
     
  20. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Lazz yes, see you at the Citrus Expo. I just received a Ichang, and a Tichang Lemon from Stan. Invite Stan to dinner. - Millet
     
  21. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

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    Hey both you guys put a good word in for me. I think Stan is my preferred supplier
    for hardy citrus (if not the only one!!) I may have to 'up' my plant order. Also if you wouldnt mind checking out any other potential suppliers.
    I had discussions with a Agricultural inspector from Agriculture Canada on Friday and
    she advised that IF the plants were shipped bare root that would alleviate the necessity
    to treat the roots for the Japanese Beetle, the other thing of concearn is the
    Soybean Cyst Nematode - That can be checked by the SC agricultural inspector.
    If that is present, it is a "no go" since it is impossible to get rid of.
    Apparently once the soil has been removed it can be packed in fresh peat moss or similar sterile material for shipping.
    Something new learned everyday!
    Any thoughts?
    Greg
     
  22. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Gregn, there were six citrus venders selling trees at the 2005 citrus expo. I ask each vender if they would consider shipping trees to Canada, and every vender said - No. They all said it was to much trouble. Again, as Canada has no citrus to worry about the Canadian government's stand on the importation of citrus seems a bit much. But who said life was fair. - Millet
     
  23. helaali1

    helaali1 Member

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    could you please list Stans web site
     
  24. helaali1

    helaali1 Member

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    where did you buy them from?
     
  25. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Contributor 10 Years

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    Mckenzie Farms
     

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