Discussion in 'Forum Announcements and Feedback' started by Daniel Mosquin, Feb 1, 2010.
I'm so sad... this is my #1 forum...
Just to say thanks to Daniel, and after thinking over this situation during the day I can see what he and others dealing with the forum must have been up against. The time must have been immense. Daniel, please forgive the hurt feelings and the resentments over the fact that the variety of the international features is coming to a close. Most other forums are commercial and carry all those distracting ads. I will so miss the casual ability to share plant info and ask questions which could be researched but would take days of reading and online research to do so. Fortunately the one forum for our region will still be up, but I will feel guilty for using it, to some degree! I hope I will get over that, we want it to be used. It was a cleanly produced, easy to read, non-distracting international forum, well-divided regarding types of topics, and the task of keeping out of it the trash which crops up on the Internet must have been daunting. Too bad people are like that. Maybe one day psychologists will come up with an explanation -- is it some form of evil, beyond mere human psychology, disrupting normal life in many ways, do you think? The patience with which some experts explained things was remarkable. My questions regarding cotoneaster shrub identification was an example...how delighted I was when it finally became obvious what it was! I spent the evening looking at other forums and they are largely too lightly chatty, too commercial and glitzy, and one I came across seemed to be only for the academic specialist and one had to have verifiable qualifications to participate... but if anyone has some good alternatives please let us know. I have not been really impressed with a couple of suggestions but I will keep trying with them, one is new and getting underway.
Not only has Daniel responded to a lot of these postings, set up special access for the administrator of another board, explained the problems in another board, but he's read the 127 of these postings in two days. I'm finding just doing that exhausting. And I can quit reading them if I want to.
Very well put Janet, my sentiments exactly.
In Britain there are the RHS forums.( Royal Horticultural Society) But, compared to UBC forum they are a complete embarassment, I am ashamed and sorry to say.
Daniel, I was just wondering if funding was raised by members donations, what sort of hour would it take, just to keep the forums going as they are now, if that was solely their job?
There must be someone who would be only to willing to work part time, possibly from home ( computer/ botany student. Retired keen person with time on their hands, wanting to feel useful and needed, but who just needs some extra $$$.) Someone with the skills and diplomacy, to keep this wonderful resource going in its present format.
What sort of figure in $$$ per year are we looking at?
A member said $100 but people just will not only not have that kind of spare funds but will not pay that amount.
For me that will be Â£63 which is a lot of money...it is to me anyway.
I've added a few other fora to the links/downloads for other online discussion forums. Nothing with the science and camaraderie blend that was to be found here, alas.
Yes, somewhere else on here or further up I suggested I'd pay $100 per year to belong to this forum if it were moderated for screening out the crazies and baddies by a part-timer, a student working at the Garden or from home, at night! We would, perhaps, then have to consider was this a small group of say 50 people reading it, after gaining access to it via our paid-for password: would we feel the same about it, if the exchanges of ideas and information were not publicly available? Or would we want to make it publicly available if we were paying for it? The password would definitely keep out the baddies. We, ourselves, could direct participants to the right forums, etc. If it were by membership only, we'd know enough to keep our questions organized in the right forums, usually. This of course would have to be worth it, in that the cleanup and technical maintenance work would really be done, it would be a salary paid from a body of donations and supervised by the UBC Botanical Garden or the UBC Computer Engineering or Computer Science people... Yes, I know it's a lot of money but the world is changing and some things that were free won't be, I'm afraid, as conditions change, world saturation with the Web occurs, etc., etc. I would regard it as a gardening or recreational club to which I paid a membership fee. Our friends may disagree, and not want to pay on principle, but I am just saying that's what I would do. I am not going to take my money, such as it is, with me after my demise, and I see no reason for saving a relatively few dollars for, realistically, maybe 10 years [10 x 100 = 1000] for my offspring. Someone could look at $50 per year and see what that would raise -- you'd need 100 members for the same amount of salary. I know the setup and arrangements for this and soliciting the membership fees would be a pain, for us or for whomever, but if a band of dedicated participants attempted to raise the money [perhaps put into a bank account until the right amount was reached, if not, returned to the donors] perhaps the university would provide a student job. First, we should do a poll to see who would donate and follow through with the donation, in order to see if it would be worth the effort. Here's one positive! Thanks to the longtime members, or Daniel and others, for the other online forums list, now located under the "LinksDownloads" tab at the top after one signs in. I'll take a look at it in due course.
Its another three months before anything is looked at again Janet. People seem to be panicing and there is no need.
Daniel already said he will look at paid subscriptions soon as an one option. Its up to admin now.
Paid subscriptions?!!! Are you kidding me?!!
The whole thing is just ridiculous!
They should be paying me...and many other folks for their time, advice, and efforts!!! Has anyone ever donated a dime Ron's way?! Or what about Lorax, or Joclyn...for all their helpful advice and time?!
This forum is only as good as the people make it, and when members are being treated shabbily..i.e...closing down the social forums and snuffing out gardening sociability among friends...and then being told they have to pay...is adding insult to injury!!!
It's not that I would begrudge donating money towards a good cause, and often do, but there are surely other options to keep ubc intact. We are all adults anyway, and can certainly monitor ourselves, with the forum charter to now follow as a guideline.
This is not as big a deal as it is being portrayed, and I think this business of paying for subscriptions is just a smokescreen to deflect from the fact that UBC doesn't really care about ALL it's members Equally.
Why don't you folks set up a site of your own?
Seems like a win/win solution to me.
A good solution to get rid of us!
Oh come now, let's not get testy. My suggestion was honestly meant as a solution for the time it takes to keep it clean and tidy and the electronics and software running smoothly, which seems to be the problem. Surely we don't need bad feelings generated by these suggestions. If no one, or not everyone anyway, wants to pay for it, fine, it can be voted down as a suggestion. No one was trying to screen anyone out. I am sure it is very time-consuming to do the kind of monitoring and cleanup Daniel had to do for this, plus keeping the software and hardware adjusted, "oiled and screwed tight" [metaphorically speaking]. The government of BC is having financial problems owing to the various downturns in the logging industry and other sectors of the economy, and probably can't afford to support UBC, the university, the way it needs to be supported, and indirectly all of these things affect Daniel's workload and other matters. Let's keep polite, calm, cool and collected and be model communicators!
Thank you Janet! I have left more than a few forums due to such fusses and if this one were not closing as a result of decisions made for good reasons discussed by the management I would consider leaving this one.
Since little is going to change as a result this public fuss needs to end. Now.
Most have Bob, me too but I like it here. I try to go between the two daily but I also have other software to keep updated.
Not a problem Janet, we are cool.
People are allowed to express themselves anyway they want to, and are totally accountable for their own posts. The problem comes in when other people think they can tell someone else how to think, feel, and otherwise express themselves.
I've been a long term contributing member here, and I don't like the forum resconstruction...it is my right to feel that way. Just as it is your right to feel the way you do too.
IF someone can keep their own self in check in life, they'd be doing something really fantastic.
Excellent advice. I just wish everyone would take it.
The Charter of no Rights;
ARTICLE I :You do not have the right to a new car, big screen TV or any other form of wealth. More power to you if you can legally acquire them, but no one is guaranteeing anything.
ARTICLE II: You do not have the right to never be offended. This country is based on freedom, and that means freedom for everyone – not just you! You may leave the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc., but the World is full of idiots, and probably always will be.
ARTICLE III: You do not have the right to be free from harm. If you stick a screwdriver in your eye, learn to be more careful, do not expect the tool manufacturer to make you and all your relatives independently wealthy.
ARTICLE IV: You do not have the right to free food and housing. Canadians are the most charitable people to be found, and will gladly help anyone in need, but we are quickly growing weary of subsidizing generation after generation of professional couch potatoes who achieve nothing more than the creation of another generation of professional couch potatoes.
ARTICLE V: You do not have the right to free health care. That would be nice, but from the looks of public housing, we're just not interested in health care.
ARTICLE VI: You do not have the right to physically harm other people. If you kidnap, rape, intentionally maim or kill someone, don't be surprised if the rest of us want to see you fry in the electric chair.
ARTICLE VII: You do not have the right to the possessions of others. If you rob, cheat or coerce away the goods or services of other citizens, don't be surprised if the rest of us get together and lock you away in a place where you still won't have the right to a big-screen color TV or a life of leisure.
ARTICLE VIII: You do not have the right to demand that our children risk their lives in foreign wars to soothe your aching conscience. We hate oppressive governments and won't lift a finger to stop you from going to fight if you'd like. However, we do not enjoy parenting the entire world and do not want to spend so much of our time battling each and every little tyrant with a military uniform and a funny hat.
ARTICLE IX: You do not have the right to a job. All of us sure want all of you to have one, and will gladly help you along in hard times, but we expect you to take advantage of the opportunities of education and vocational training laid before you to make yourself useful.
ARTICLE X: You do not have the right to happiness. Being a Canadian means that you have the right to pursue happiness—which by the way, is a lot easier if you are unencumbered by an overabundance of idiotic laws created by those of you who were confused bythe "CharterofRights".
That's funny! Hope the rest of you take it lightly! Gosh what a world we and our forbears have made, eh? We all need to laugh more, work harder and smarter, give a little help to those around us who need help, whether it's encouragement or a square meal, and laugh some more!
That's the whole point...laughter and lightheartedness are not welcome here!
To be fair, it is a discussion forum attatched to a serious university and not a commercial social networking site. The clue is in the name, it is not called "UBC Botanical FaceSpace", and shouldn't be expected to perform the function of such a site.
Obviously discussion involves social contact and interaction, but surely the botany and science must remain the main focus for UBC Botanical Garden Forums, if the site is to maintain its credibility.
To be fair...there's been social forums here since the start, but all of a sudden it's a huge problem?!
And what is this ridiculous notion that being a serious University gardening forum somehow means that we should not be able to be social, within the right places?!!
These arguments are not even something anyone can take seriously!
okay, now. this is degenerating into things and places i don't think any of us really want to go to. let's just stop it all now. okay?
everyone has expressed opinions about the situation as well as presented some kind of solution to it; and just about everyone has responded to the opinions and solutions presented.
we've all gotten our points across and there's no need to get into pissy matches with each other.
it's been stated that things will be revisited in a short amount of time...with the outcry from the members who are upset at the current changes and the offers made by so many to provide assistance in maintaining things, it's possible that when things are revisited, they may reconsider and open things back up and allowing some of the members to assist with running the forums or maybe they'll designate an employee specifically for such.
if we all start acting like children pointing fingers; pissing & moaning, etc. they definitely WON'T consider reopening things.
so, just take a few deep breaths, folks, and relax.
it is what it is and there's nothing we can do about it at the moment. ya just gotta accept it - which certainly doesn't mean ya have ta like it!
if you've already voiced your thoughts, then there's nothing more for you to say...
leave any more postings for those members who haven't been on for a bit and then come on and hear the sad news...let them have their moment to have their say as well.
the more member feedback mgmt receives (especially if it goes along with what we've already imparted) will only strengthen the arguement that the forums shouldn't be shut down...and that's what they need to be hearing...not this petty tit-for-tat stuff. so, just leave off of it, please.
If there's one thing I cannot stand...it's people who try to manage and direct other people.
Why can't folks just allow people to say what they have to say, instead of all this absurd talk about "pissy matches"?!!
ALL of my posts were meant for management and not for the judging and commenting of members who seem to think it is their business to 'check' me. It is not. It's these types of posts that actually cause the most problems.
For the last time...IF someone can keep their own self in check in life, they'd be doing something really fantastic.
Stop wasting posts managing, correcting, and otherwise telling people what to say & do...and get on with your own business in this thread.
It seems you've made us all well aware of that, sometimes it's helpful to look in the mirror.
Following the advice to stop wasting posts I have just deleted myself from receiving this thread. I wish all of you luck where ever you choose to post.
Separate names with a comma.