Finally! A real solution for treating bacterial infections.

Discussion in 'Maples' started by JT1, May 19, 2016.

  1. JT1

    JT1 Rising Contributor

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    Finally we have a real solution that is effective in treating pseudomonas! My wife has developed a horticultural tea that stops an active outbreak and it clears up the vascular system. We have been using this trearment for the past few seasons on several varieties of Japanese maples and have found it works on fungal infections too. Read below for more on the story or check out the pictures as they speak for themselves.

    A few seasons ago we had the worst Winter in history. We had several weeks below 0F and a 72 hour period that was -25F. We were about to lose much of our collection of large specimen Japanese maples. The first to go were a large Sango kaku and Amber ghost in March. The bacteria started as small areas of black in the trunk that would double in size in just hours and the trees were completely consumed in just a few days. they were all black and the once healthy looking buds were black and the trees were dead.

    A week later I walked around the garden to see that Orange Dream, Mikawa yatsubusa, and Corallinum were doomed and will be the next to go. Mikawa and
    Corallinum 50% consumed with Corallinum had black all the way around the graft. My wife asked if she could treat the trees with some of her plant based herbal remedies, and I figured they are going to die anyways so what do we have to loose.

    My wife brewed a tea and treated the trees by spraying topically and watering into the roots systemically. The black in the bark stopped spreading, so I knew we were onto something. So then we tried a combination of antibacterial and antiseptic ingredients and we re-applied a few days later and the black turned grey.

    Using the new solution we treated new outbreaks and found that the black turned grey in just a day, we re-treated in a few days and again in 10 days. The bacteria was in remission and the trees started leafing out late and slowly. I choose remission, because some trees had future outbreaks, but all were controlled that Spring and many of the trees performed very well that Summer and fall. Kagari nishiki was the latest to leaf out in July. To add insult to injury, the next winter we had the coldest February in history.

    Fast forward 3 seasons and now we have perfected the tea and it treats bacteria and also fungal leaf diseases. We also found that it treats clematis wilt too. We feel it is a real breakthrough. Now we have a sense of control and confidence when treating pseudomonas as we have a solution that actually treats and controls an active infection. It has saved 50% of our collection. It also seems to clear up the vascular system as these trees stand up to full sun and 90f+ heat. Most trees could not survive the summer with over 50% of the tree affected by a bacterium.

    Here is the tree that was hit the worst, Corallinum. Mr Shep told me if you can treat a bacterial infection in the graft that we were really on to something as a graft infection is the hardest infection to treat. When you see the pictures you will wonder how this tree is alive and how is it back budding through dead tissue.

    First spring after treatment, the black active spreading infection stopped and turned grey:
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    2015 Grey is starting to flake away showing a light brown.
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    Last edited: May 19, 2016
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  2. JT1

    JT1 Rising Contributor

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    In 2016 the light brown is cracking and flaking away to show the wound wood or healing underneath.
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  3. JT1

    JT1 Rising Contributor

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    2016...
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  4. JT1

    JT1 Rising Contributor

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    It is worth noting that the season before the coldest winter in history, lime sulfur was banned. I always used it to prevent pseudomonas and only had one outbreak in my 10 years collecting and growing maples in container, landscape, and bonsai. I can't say if discontinuing lime sulfur caused these outbreaks as it is more likely that it was caused by the stress of the severe freeze. I don't use copper spray because I don't find that its an effective control.

    When I have more time, I will post pictures of other trees and the results.

    We are open to doing research with a university to document the results in a lab setting.

    We are also open to working with someone familiar with bringing horticultural products to the market.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
  5. JT1

    JT1 Rising Contributor

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    Here are some pictures of our Mikawa yatsubusa. Looking at the pictures from 2015 you will see one half of the branch is grey and the other half is the normal green color.
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    Here are better pictures from 2016 (can't find my 2014 pics at the moment). You will see the grey flaking away and the brown wound wood is forming underneath the damaged tissue from the treated pseudomonas infection.
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  6. JT1

    JT1 Rising Contributor

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    Here is Orange dream from 2015. (need to find 2014 pics) The bacterial infection is now dead tissue showing as grey and light brown with some signs of wound wood or healing in areas.

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  7. JT1

    JT1 Rising Contributor

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    Here is Orange dream in 2016 with more signs of healing. Widespread wound wood has formed under the grey dead tissue (signs of flaking from weather decay and cracking in the grey as wound wood swells under the tissue causing the vertical cracks in the dead tissue as wound wood forms underneath and forming around other exposed areas. Note that the branch collar in some areas has completely decomposed as the infection was widespread in the area of the trunk and the branch; in those cases wound wood is forming and some of the heart wood may need to be cut back to allow the wound to properly close)
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  8. bub72ck

    bub72ck Active Member

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    Looking forward to learning more about this.
     
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  9. AlainK

    AlainK Well-Known Member Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    The results look spectacular!
     
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  10. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member

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    Well, you can't say it looks pretty,but that doesn't matter because here's the thing...I'm pretty sure any of those infections would have finished off my plants,there's gotta be something in it!
     
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  11. JT1

    JT1 Rising Contributor

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    Yes, I agree it is ugly, but given the age of the trees, I love them regardless and am so happy to not have lost them. Most people don't even notice in person, when the leaves are out. Most say they would have never noticed if i had not pointed it out.

    Now the goal is prevention and vigilance, to catch it very early at first signs.

    Example of prevention...Last season my wife's friend got a 10g floating cloud maple that was heavily root bound. They root raked the tree and planted it. Her friend did not water against our recommendations, she said " it was supposed to rain". We had a very cool Spring and Summer, but two days after planting the sun came along with the 90f heat. The tree defoliated (and had some black tips and small black branches in the canopy from the nursery). We used the horticultural tea to prevent a widespread infection. The tree leafed out a month later with no problems and clean bark.

    Its hard to take credit for prevention, but I can say it stopped the spread of black tips further down the branches when the black tips were pruned out and survived the stress of upset roots, dryness, heat, and defoliating.

    But excessive prevention is known to create bacterial resistance in some treatments (like copper spray). What does not kill it will only make it stronger and more resistant to treatment. So its walking a fine line as we do not want to ruin a good thing.
     
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  12. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I will check the photos more closely on the computer later on but it does seem your method has definite practical application. Perhaps for a wide array of plants that have been plagued by blossom and twig blight and airborne blast form topical diseases.

    You and your wife have done a beautiful job of dealing with the non-gummosis, dry lesion form of bacterial canker in Maples. I will look forward to reading more information about application techniques (soil drench or topical sprays as to when and how often) and seeing how these Maples respond in the future. I do especially like what I am seeing for results so far!

    Jim
     
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  13. JT1

    JT1 Rising Contributor

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    So far it treats foliage fungus in crab apple, service berry, juniper, black spot in roses, clematis wilt, verticillium wilt in azalea and redbud, treats white fly, aphids, leaf hoppers, and the nasty Oregon powdery mildew in Acer palmatum that I battled for years, compliments of a maple from Talon, but now it is gone from our garden thanks to the horticultural tea.

    The treated aftermath looks like dry canker in the pictures but it was all glossy black classic pseudomonas syringae (note that I did not have it sent to the lab, diagnosis based on experience). My fault for not taking pictures. At the time I knew what was happening and did not want to take pictures of my dying trees as I was too upset. It was kind of like taking pictures of the dead, I wanted no part of it. But once we realized that it was working we took pictures of the treated areas.


    To be clear these areas were glossy black and rapidly spreading. Once treated the glossy black turned matte black and stopped spreading. After the second treatment a few days later the black turned grey with kaki spots. The next treatment 10 days later all black was grey. The trees started leafing out. They stood up to sun and were slow to grow.

    The second season is where the grey started to flake away to expose heart wood in the worst areas, but exposed brown and wound wood in most areas. The trees put on average growth.

    The third season the trees put on lots of growth and other than the bark damage, the trees grow and appear as a healthy tree.

    Here is an example from this season. Here is Ibo nishiki after the first treatment (note this is a cork bark maple). This is a big 10' tree, so the first treatment shows a combination of first treatment and the white grey of a second treatment in areas. Since it is a large tree and the areas were caught early, the tree is responding quickly to the treatment. I will try to keep up with pictures to better document the progress this season.
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    Last edited: May 20, 2016
  14. JT1

    JT1 Rising Contributor

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    Here are a couple examples of infections treated this season. The first is 'little sango' which I got about 4 years ago from Buchholz. The tree came sick with black tips and a few small black branches, which continued to be a problem through out the first season until we treated it with the new tea in the next season. The tree was in remission until the big black spot this season. After treatment you can see the black is all grey except along the thin outer margins of the area you can still see a little matte black.
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    Here is an updated macro photo to show the vigor since the area was treated
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    Here is another outbreak from this season on okushimo. The tree lost a lot of its fine branches after the coldest winter on record. A few seasons later the tree is building back its network of fine branches but suffered a outbreak this season, which was a fast moving infection that stopped spreading after the first treatment. Notice after the first treatment the glossy black is matte black along with grey and khaki spots forming.
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    After the second treatment you can see more khaki color and the grey is starting to flake away.
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    You can see that some of the branches downstream from the infection is leafing out and only one or two small branches on the left of the area may be lost.
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  15. AlainK

    AlainK Well-Known Member Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    It's incredible what you can do with Photoshop.........




    I'm joking, I'm just envious: I have leaf spot problems with some of my trees and I really wish I knew the recipe!

    I also had "black twig" symptoms on my 'Bi-Hoo': I used alcohol on my pruners, removed the black twigs, then I rubbed the cuts with hydrogen peroxide, then sprayed the tree with a 20% solution. Ten days later, no sign of blackening, but some of the leaves are still wilting a bit. Too dark now for good pictures, but here's one I took on May 15th:
     

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  16. JT1

    JT1 Rising Contributor

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    Haha..Its not photoshop. It was a camera setting that caused the over saturated colors in the little sango leaf photos.

    Spoke to my Dad and he treated his Autumn Moon that had a black area in the trunk. He did just 1 treatment spraying the area and a drench. He said the black turned grey in 1 treatment and the tree is doing better than ever. This is the first shirasawanum thats been treated.

    Our bihoo got black in it and we treated it with our tea after that terrible winter. The bark damage was very visible and in a prime spot. So after the infection was treated, we pulled it and put it in a cedar box. We cut the trunk down from 6' down to 2' to eliminate the ugly bark areas. Three years later and the tree is very short and dense but has no problems with black tips or black in the trunk.
     
  17. ajm55555

    ajm55555 New Member

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    JT, can you share the recipe?
     
  18. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member

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    John,have you or do you intend to try the 'tea' as a preventative?...or do you think it could work? I wonder about applying very late in season,perhaps in a diluted form but am unsure how long maples continue to take up water come fall.
     
  19. AlainK

    AlainK Well-Known Member Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hello,
    I dared not ask:

    Firstly, JT1's missuz is apparently running a commecial business. It would be understandable for her to try and make some money out of her discovery, it's not as if a non-professional like me found the holy Graal of fungicides by mixing plants that can be collected in the nearby fields. If that were the case, I'd patent it under a kind of Creative commons license, just to make sure Monsanto or Bayer coukldn't make huge profit from something that anyone can brew in their garage.

    Secondly, he mentions "a combination of antibacterial and antiseptic ingredients" without mentioning what these are, and maybe they're patented.
    Unless it's only a mixture of hydrogen peroxide and copper sulfate ;0)

    Thirdly, if their experiment can draw attention from a university, research implies long-term eperiments and testing to see if the "product" is harmless to the plants and/or animals. Research means money: which means those involved wouldn't want their discoveries to benefit others, that is to be stolen from them, whether it's a public institution or a private company.

    My 2 €uro cents' worth...

    PS: but I would suggest they give the members of the Maple Society a 95% discount on the price ;°D
     
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  20. ajm55555

    ajm55555 New Member

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    I dared, in my ignorance of all the background information and my Just Joined status!
    Of course, just in case it counts, open sourcing the recipe is my top choice too ;-)
     
  21. JT1

    JT1 Rising Contributor

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    AlainK thanks for taking the time to make things crystal clear :-)

    My wife and I are generous people and its hard for us not to share the recipe. We hate to see someones tree dying. But our patent lawyer keeps us in check. Our lawer said if you post the invention to a public forum you are donating it to the world. Then anyone can stake claim, profit, take all the credit. As much as we want to save the world, our lawyers advice is a big dose of reality. As nothing upsets me more than the self-centered righteous that feel like its their right to take from others for the full benefit of themself, giving no credit or not willing to at least share some of the benefit from the stolen intellectual property. This is not directed to anyone in particular, its just the reality of the times.

    We are open to working with people as long as its fair and mutually benificial for all parties involved.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2016
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  22. bub72ck

    bub72ck Active Member

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    I agree with him not sharing the recipe, at least not yet. JT you SHOULD make money from this product if you have taken the time to perfect the recipe and it does as advertised. I hope you and your wife have a million dollar idea on your hands. That's a lot more money for maples!
     
  23. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Sometimes it is not the potential money making enterprise that makes the most difference in our decisions, in this case, it can be who all benefits from the tea. If I could choose who I would want to have a plant based brewed tea recipe I have used years ago, I probably would but there are some people in plants that I would prefer never did have the recipe also and thus I would keep the formulation to myself in an open forum.

    John has to do what's best for John. It is neat to see that he has made inroads as a disease symptom suppressor. Now we wait and see how these plants react from here on out over time to learn more.

    Jim
     
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  24. JT1

    JT1 Rising Contributor

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    Here are some updated pictures of okushimo.
    Sorry the lighting was terrible...

    I think it needs another treatment, but you can see more grey and khaki, . The leaves down stream are slowly opening on some of the thinner branches, while the thicker branches down stream are doing great. As mentioned before it looks like I will loose the 2 small left twigs. Oh i should also mention that this tree is growing as bonsai. That is probably why its slower to respond.

    It seems being in the ground, tree size, slow growing vs faster growing, and the overall health before the outbreak all contribute. For example, my Dad's Autumn moon is a stronger grower and in the ground. The treatment worked completely in just 1 treatment. Where as my okushimo has been a bonsai for 5 years and is very slow growing as a result and we will need a 4th treatment.
     

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  25. JT1

    JT1 Rising Contributor

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    Yes, you make a good point. We have used it as a preventable solution for bihoo. Since this tree has a history of a big outbreak after the worst winter (and has a bad rep in the trade) we have since cut it back and 3 seasons later... no signs of outbreak. We treated it in the fall and spring. Also anytime I treat something and have a little left over i pour a little on my bihoo for good measure.
    Here is the tree
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    The clean bark
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    and the clean new leader
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    Another example of prevention...Last season my wife's friend got a 10g floating cloud maple that was heavily root bound. They root raked the tree and planted it. Her friend did not water against our recommendations, she said " it was supposed to rain". We had a very cool Spring and Summer, but two days after planting the sun came along with the 90f heat. The tree defoliated (and had some black tips and small black branches in the canopy from the nursery). We used the horticultural tea to prevent a widespread infection. The tree leafed out a month later with no problems and clean bark.

    Its hard to take credit for prevention, but I can say it stopped the spread of black tips further down the branches when the black tips were pruned out and survived the stress of upset roots, dryness, heat, and defoliating.

    But excessive prevention is known to create bacterial resistance in some treatments (like copper spray and excessive use of antibiotics in people). What does not kill it will only make it stronger and more resistant to treatment. So its walking a fine line as we do not want to ruin a good thing.
     

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    Last edited: May 24, 2016

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