Are these orchids?

Discussion in 'Plants: Identification' started by lorax, Aug 16, 2007.

  1. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    They're growing like orchids (out of pseudobulbs) but they sure don't look like any other orchids I've ever seen. They look, in fact, like diseased jack-in-the-pulpits.

    What are they please?
     

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  2. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. Do you have a flower photo?
     
  3. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    So far as I can tell, that is the flower.
     
  4. arcticshaun

    arcticshaun Active Member

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    Man you don't pick easy ones do you? The only orchids that I know of that produce a raceme (?) that looks anything like that are the bulbophyllums. A large group of orchids but I don't think there many South American species (there a few African types which resemble yours somewhat). Just a wild uneducated guess.

    Shaun
     
  5. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Hey, that's one wild uneducated guess more than I've got. I actually have some more of these plants that are in un-erupted and semi-erupted raceme states, and which appear to be the same species (same leaves and little PBs.)

    I'll have a boo at the bulbophyllums.

    Thanks!
     
  6. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    I've spent several hours trying to uncover information this morning on the Bulbophyllums. Although these are a distinctly unique group, as far as I can determine, they still have the 3 petals and 3 sepals known to orchids. I'm not certain what you are growing! But my personal opinion is, wierd as it may be, it isn't an orchid. Have you considered sending a photo to the guys at Ecuagenera?
     
  7. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    I have, but I thought I'd run it by y'all first to determine if it's an orchid or no. I had my own doubts, since I'd never even heard of one with racemes instead of inflorescences.

    However, if the red bumps erupt into flower, I'll post pictures.
     
  8. arcticshaun

    arcticshaun Active Member

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    I was kind of envisioning those bumps being buds on a thickened rachis as the inflorescence (I had to look that up). After looking at Jay's Orchid site thru several hundred pictures I can't find anything like it. The closest Bulbophyllums having the thick rachis and growing in Central or South America are B. cirrhosum and B. pachyrachis but neither resembles your plant. So if your plant doesn't magically erupt flowers from those bumps it probably isn't an orchid.
    Of course I just quadrupled my orchid wishlist by looking thru this huge group of orchids :)

    Shaun
     
  9. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    I know, Jay's orchid site is really dangerous that way.... The nice folks at Ecuagenera may be able to make some of your wishlist happy.

    If they do end up being the buds and the rachis an inflorescence, I'll be surprised and pleased.

    If they stay as red bumps on a raceme, I'll be puzzled but accepting and start looking into the epiphytic raceme-producing monocotic plants with pseudobulbs of Ecuador. I don't imagine that there are very many of those, although I may be wrong, and I'm not quite sure how I'll go about it. Googling the above phrase yeilds no results. There is a serious lack of knowledge regarding plants in Ecuador, and to complicate things, they keep discovering new species.
     
  10. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    For you serious orchid "nuts" out there, Ecuagenera is a great place to order species orchids at a very fair price. We've been buying plants from them for a long time. If you frequent orchid shows be sure and look for their rep. They often bring in large quantities of orchid species and aroids and sell them at very good prices. And I don't have any connection with Ecuagenera other than they get some of my money! Look them up on the net.
     
  11. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Well, the raceme just keeps getting redder. However, each tumescence has fine lines where it can split and possibly open into flowers.... fingers crossed....

    Also, here's the plant itself (or one of them at any rate.) Perhaps this will help the ID along. The whole thing is maybe a foot tall, if that.

    Since I have 9 or 10 of these plants, I've actually got growth-stage pictures of the racemes, if that might help y'all - just let me know and I'll post them straightaway. The red one we're dealing with is the most advanced of them.
     

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  12. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Send a copy of your photo to the guys over at Ecuagenera. They should know, and I certainly would like to know!!

    sales@ecuagenera.com

    They are very good at helping.
     
  13. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Earlier today I asked Steve Marak to take a look at this thread and photos. Steve collects a large number of both orchids, aroids, and tropical species. I thought you'd enjoy his comments.

    "If someone just showed me the first photo without any accompanying clues
    and asked me what I thought it was, I'd have immediately said it was an
    "old" aroid inflorescence, poorly fertilized or with some other problem
    which produced only a few fruits on the spadix. If pressed further, I'd
    have guess an anthurium, but would have admitted it was just a feeling and
    based on nothing I could point to as a fact ...

    The other two pictures at the bottom of the thread wouldn't change my
    opinion, but there something confusing me.

    In the picture of the foliage, it almost looks like there are 2 different
    plants in there. The smaller leaves, with a pronounced midrid, look like
    an anthurium or other aroid. The very much larger leaf more or less in the
    center, as well as the one going out of frame on the upper left, look
    very different to me, and more like an orchid (and the structure from
    which that left-most leaf originates does look like an orchid pseudobulb
    to me).
    "

    So I still don't have any idea what you are growing!
     
  14. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    He's got me there, there's an orchid growing in the same pot as the mystery plant in the photo.... This is part of what caused my initial confustion. Neat that it might be an aroid of some sort!
     
  15. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    I was so absorbed with the berries I didn't notice the other important features!! I think Steve hit it on the nail!

    Go back and look at your very first photo. You can see the spathe which is hanging pendantly beneath the spadix and berries. I have no idea what kind of aroid, but I'd say it appears to be one as well. Can you isolate a photo of the leaf of what appears to be the aroid in your photo? If nothing else, try to print a copy and circle it so we can look at it closer. But even better if we can enlarge it.
     
  16. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Let me look at my files; I think I may have a picture of just the leaves and the base of the plant... Othewise, I've been reducing from substantial RAW data (8MP camera at full capacity) so it should be no problem to give you a good closeup of the leaves.
     
  17. edleigh7

    edleigh7 Well-Known Member

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    Yes some of that foliage definetly looks like Anthurium to me, maybe bonsai'd now!!

    Ed
     
  18. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Well, Ecuador does have something like 500 species of endemic Anthurium, so it may just be a small variety rather than an bonsai. I don't think it was trained to be that tiny...
     
  19. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Actually, there are many more than that. Those are only the ones currently identified to science. My freind Dr. Tom Croat of the Missouri Botanical Garden is recognized as the top botanical scientist in the field of Ecuadorian Anthurium species. He is coming down next week for two months to locate, collect, photograph and begin the identification process on as many more species as is possible. The suspicion is there are at least as many unknown to science as known. It may be a long time before we know about them all! Don't know where you are located for certain, but he will be concentrating a good deal of his effort in the are around Lita and Maldonado. It is known there are many species there not yet identified. But I'm certain Tom will find his way to all the corners of the country as time permits!
     
  20. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    he's way north of me.
     
  21. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Don't know if we'll get a positive ID on your Anthurium, but I've asked the entire Aroid l discussion group to take a look at this thread and offer an opinion. I don't know if they'll chose to just post their possible ID or send it back to the Aroid l forum, but hopefully we'll get an idea or two! There are some pretty sharp Anthurium growers on that discussion group.
     
  22. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Cool! I know a few of the types I'm growing; predominantly they're A. gualeanum although I seem to be having success above their normal height range (my books say they top out at about 800m and I'm closer to 2000m)
     
  23. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    According to the count of "views" around 17 or 18 have viewed this in the last half hour. Hopefully we'll get some input!
     
  24. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    I think we now have an ID. One of the country's best aroid collectors and researchers just sent me a note saying it Anthurium gracile. It grows in the Amazon Basin and all over the place at lower altitude. This researcher has been all over Ecuador and neighboring countries so I trust the opinion completely. Problem is this person prefers not to have me use their identity! So I'll honor that request. Try to look it up!
     
  25. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Pictures found when googling are an exact match! Thanks!
     

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