Anthurium jenmanii, What in the world is going on?

This is a nondescript Anthurium that is a member of section Pachyneurium. It is exactly what this thread is talking about. You can find them on eBay but the price is going up. They are commonly known as members of the "birds nest" forms but figuring out the species is quite difficult. You can read my description of how to possibly figure out what it is by reading my responses in this thread. You'll need to order a copy of Dr. Tom Croat's journal with a set of "keys" in order to do so.

 

Hello Steve thank you for the Reply,

You have many experience about take care Anthurium, maybe you have ever see this kind of Anthurium. This Anthurium are commonly Anthurium Jenmani variant.

I would like to know maybe one from United state or other countries have this anthurium. Its look very interesting coz the Leaf are different with others.

Thank you.

Regards,

Lirim & Dina

 

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It would appear this is a hybrid variation. I specialize in species Anthurium and not in hybrid variants. In the U.S., hybrids are considered of little value by most serious collectors. There are collectors who love to buy them, but in many cases the price is low.

I just traded mail today with one of the largest growers of Anthurium section Pachynerium species in the U.S. The demand in your country is totally depleting every one's stock. But still, there is almost no demand for hybrid forms. In the U.S. the majority of collectors wish to buy species.

Sorry, the only way you will be able to figure out the parentage of this plant is to have a DNA test done. And I only know of one individual in Brazil who is currently doing DNA testing and his work is strictly for research purposes. It is unlikely you'll ever figure out what was used to cross with Anthurium jenmanii (if that is one of the parents) to produce this plant. Sorry.

 

Im still overwhelmed at the prices these things are going for. Like Steve said, they are likely the first things given away after the Greenhouse gets full here in the US. I'd say perhaps because we are close to the American Tropics, giving us easier access to these plants in the wild....but no. If you have enough money to spend 10-100K USD on a plant then you could fly over and collect them in the wild for alot less.

 

That is for certain Mike! I've got three or four natural hybrids in my atrium and every one was a gift. People gave them to me because they were so common.

Some are beautiful, but I'll never know what they are. Even DNA is not a certain way to figure them out since nobody has a DNA profile on all the species. But I'm with you. I just can't figure out why the super high prices on Anthurium plants you could have bought at a plant flea market for just a couple of dollars.

 

Hello
I am new to this site but would like to reply to the people that are saying Jenmanii is common and saying that it is the first plant nurseries give away to clear room for other plants. Give me a break. If you can name one nursery that is growing Jenmanii and giving it away I will gladly take the plants. The Jenmaniis I grow have all seeded and I have done nothing to them, they seed on their own. Maybe the insect or whatever is pollinating them, goes from one plant to another, but the fact is I have seeds and they are selling like hotcakes. It was said that it is "uncertain how anyone can make money collecting Anthurium seed in Indonesia. This genus is not native to SE Asia. It is found (natively) in only Mexico, Central American, South America and portions of the Caribbean."come on, I collect seed off of mine all the time and I don't live in Mexico, Central America or South America so it is possible to collect seed in Indonesia. And please give me the name of the Florida growers that have elected to "throw away the seeds rather than sell them in mass to Asia. They don't want what market there currently is to be further destroyed. And flooding the market with thousands of formerly rare plants will simply kill the market, thus destroying the business of US growers."
There was no market in the US for these plants that is why we are selling them to SE Asia. That is the reason they are rare because no one grows them.
In closing, if you have these plants and you grow plants for a living, you know this kind of opportunity comes once in lifetime so take advantage of it. If you don't have these plants and you don't make a living growing plants, please let us bask in the glow of our well deserved windfall.

 

Hey el frijole, this was posted when we didn't have an aroid forum. Now we have one you might want to check it out....

Ed : )

 

rumapohon,
the photos you posted of your plants are lovely. I don't think your plants look "nondescript" at all. (I know your English might not be so good, which is okay, so I will tell you that "non-descript" means "not very special looking".)
NOT SO!
I think your plants ROCK! Very nice plants. Keep up the good growing. (and WHO CARES if they are species, or hybrids?? Without HYBRIDS, we'd have NO NEW PLANTS to grow...not everyone has friends in high places that are willing to give them rare plants as gifts, and not everyone can fly somewhere and collect rare wild plants, and they shouldn't be doing that ANYWAY)

 

Don't forget we are not making it personal, as Daniel, a moderator. has already stated when he shut the other thread down...

Ed

 

"I have grown Anthurium jenmanii for many years. It is not rare, but it remains one of my favorite plants. It is tough, both as a landscape subject and as a houseplant. It thrives in a wide range of growing conditions and rarely if ever has pests. It is the definition of low-maintenance plant". This quote is from noted author and plant expert Leland Miyano who was the guest speaker for the International Aroid Society In Miami, September 15, 2007

Aroid expert Julius Boos recently wrote, "Anthurium is a neotropical genus and does not occur naturally anywhere outside the neo-tropics!" The neo-troproics is defined as Central America, South America, the Caribbean, and Mexico.

"Anthurium (Araceae), a distinct neotropical genus with more than 700 species, is a member of the subfamily Pothoideae. The genus ranges from Northern Mexico and the Greater Antilles to Southern Brazil and Northern Argentina and Paraguay. Species diversity is greatest at lower to middle elevations of northern South America, Panama, and Costa Rica, while the upper Amazonian forests and lower Amazonian forests are relatively poor in species. In this paper, 122 species from Mexico and Middle America are revised. The 152 Panamanian species will be treated in a subsequent paper. In Mexico and Middle America, Costa Rica is richest in species, with 65. The remainder of Middle America is relatively poor in species, with Nicaragua having only 25 known species, Honduras having only 13 known species, Guatemala having 25 known species, and Belize fewer than 10 species. Mexico has 41 known taxa with 26 species endemic. In all, six new taxa from Mexico and Middle America were described in this revision: A. armeniense, A. chamulense Matuda ssp. oaxacanum, A. halmoorei, A. lancetillense, A. nelsonii, and A. rzedowskii. In addition, five new combinations have been proposed, including A. chiapasense ssp. tiaxiacense (Matuda) Croat, A. cuneatissimum (Engler) Croat, A. pedatoradiatum ssp. helleborifolium (Schott) Croat, A. schlechtendalii ssp. jimenezii (Matuda) Croat, and A. subcordatum ssp. chlorocardium (Standl. & L. 0. Wins.) Croat." A quote from Dr. Tom Croat, Anthurium expert from the Missouri Botanical Garden. Published in the paper A REVISION OF THE GENUS ANTHURIUM (ARACEAE) OF MEXICO AND CENTRAL AMERICA. PART I:
MEXICO AND MIDDLE AMERICA' http://www.aroid.org/genera/anthurium/abstrap1.htm

 

Again, I think there is still some confusion as to where Anthuriums grow NATURALLY, and where Anthuriums CAN grow. Some Dracaenas come from Madagascar, but I grow them in Australia...

Ed

 

The Spanish introduced many Neotropical plants into Indonesia , the Philippines and Thailand while taking all the gold they pillaged from the New World . They took lots of fruit trees as well as ornamental plants . I saw thousands of Anth crystallinum in Indonesia . Maybe there was also some of the Pachynerium species taken as well .
This was a few hundred years ago , before the USA was colonized , so the Asians have been growing Anthuriums for a lot longer than any Yanks.

 

I never sat out to prove Anthurium "couldn't" grow there. I sat out to point out the scientific facts of the species. It appears some are now taking joy in twisting what I wrote.

 

Well, some of this hype is certainly true, especially for those who have already sold plants on eBay, but then again I wonder if they will collect actual money or be sent a bogus "cashiers check". There is a scam like that involving rare animals and what the seller receives looks like a cashiers check, but is entirely bogus and worthless (see the link I provide below and notice how much of it reads very familiar, but in a different context). The now familiar techniques include using pictures stolen from legitimate websites to advertise the offerings, offers of large sums of money for animals sight unseen, total disregard for CITES and other regulations, etc.

On a related note, I got an email recently from someone in Indonesia wanting Anthurium hookeri seeds. I decided to test the water and sent them an email showing my A. hookeri with 4 (four) ripening spadices on it. They didn't even make me an offer on it! So maybe it is just A. jenmanil that they are really after, after all.

To recap, those who have alleged buyers for their birdsnest Anthurium plants, make sure you get good money before you send or turn over your plant. You may well be left holding a worthless piece of paper!

Here's a link; it's not plant related but if you read the page, many things will seem very familiar, and in the end, the seller is scammed big time. Worth being aware of!
http://www.avesint.com/scams.html

LariAnn
Aroidia Research

 

Trikus,
thank you for pointing that out. That's a very astute observation.

I don't think its "personal" to voice your opinion that you think someone's plant is nice, even if someone else doesn't think so. Its easy to criticize, much harder to be gracious.

 

Anyway, back to plants....That is interesting trikus mickus about the Spanish taking Anth's over to Asia. That's probably why people think they are endemic to the area!!

Just to clarify, I'd say that most people on this forum know where Anthurium's are endemic and where they aren't. My comments were directed to other readers who think that they are endemic to Asia.

BTW trikus mickus, I just joined the Australian growers one that you emailed me about. It will take me a little bit to get into it, like aroid l. Would you like me to email you my address for those, if they are still up for offer?

If you are ever down my way, pop in and see me mate.

Ed

 

If I may be so bold to pose this question....(and I know I will probably get flamed, so go on...I have on my fire retardant suit)...
Who cares where anthuriums are endemic? And why do we have to keep hitting that particular dead horse over the head? If someone is interested enough to become involved in the collection, growing, and propagation of anthuriums, they can research those facts in any number of places in books and on the net. The continued rant about it is just getting way old. I would not personally care if a plant I purchased had its origin in South America, Australia, the USA or Indonesia. It just doesn't matter.

The thing we perhaps SHOULD be addressing is, the rapid disappearance of species from the wild (wherever they happen to be growing) due to poaching by plant collectors. That's a much more important issue, than where anthuriums originated way back at the dawn of time, at least IMO.

The only time native habitat makes any difference to me PERSONALLY is in the context of altitude and growing conditions. I mean, its a whole lot harder for me to try to grow a CLOUD FOREST HIGH ELEVATION plant than a LOWLAND RAINFOREST species. That at least has practical application for people who collect plants and grow them as a hobby.

 

Bihai, you are so right about the importance of native habitat; on another thread I pointed out the difference between "full sun" in the equatorial rainforest environment and "full sun" in south Florida or elsewhere in the U.S., for example. If a plant explorer reports that species "A" grows in "full sun" in the Amazon, it will probably burn up in "full sun" up here in south Florida. It is information like this that is vital to success with these plants we all love so much.

BTW, Bihai, in an earlier post on this thread (post #34), you mentioned the importance of hybrids to us as growers and collectors. You know, one major reason I started hybridizing is because I had no "friends in high places", as you put it, and I had no funds to go globe-trotting in search of new and interesting plants. I found that most people who had rare plants wanted something different in return if they traded, and I had nothing new to trade. So I set out to develop plants that no one else would have because they didn't exist in that form until I developed them. This worked and enabled me to trade for plants I would otherwise not have been able to obtain.

Some people discount the value of hybrids, but for those who believe in evolution, diversity in speciation happens faster when plants breed out of their local genetic pool, as opposed to inbreeding within their local genetic pool. Besides, without hybrids, your trip to the produce section of the grocery store would yield you much, much less than it does now, and most dog and cat owners would have animals that would look pretty much alike.

LariAnn
Aroidia Research

 

The disappearance of species from the wild is not from plant collectors! Have you ever been to a rain forest in Central or South America? What about Southeast Asia? I have been to rain forests around the world witnessing plant and animal species disappearing by the minute because of wholesale habitat destruction from logging, mining, oil palm plantation establishment, and cattle ranching. Hundreds if not thousands of acres of rain forest are destroyed forever every day.

Please stop promoting the fallacy of plant collectors causing species to disappear from the wild. You can learn more from many Web sites like http://www.rainforests.net/ or http://www.amazonconservation.org/home/how_can_you_help.htm

On page 8 of the following report from the Botanical Research Institute of Texas sponsoring rain forest conservation in Peru, there is an example of local plant collectors helping to preserve rain forest habitat and species diversity:

http://www.brit.org/Iridos/PDF_Files/REVIridos 17 1.pdf

and further information on the same program on page 4 of the following report:

http://www.brit.org/Iridos/PDF_Files/Iridos 16 2_final_.pdf

Scott Hyndman

 

Scott,
I am aware that habitat destruction does play a more major role than plant collecting.
But, if the habitat is largely gone, then that makes what's left standing all the more important, doesn't it? So doesn't it make sense that plant collectors should leave rare plants that are not directly in danger of being lost (as in pribate preserves, etc) alone, and not harvest them for the market? I actually feel the opposite about plants that are going to get trashed anyway...if that section of land is gonna burn anyway, then by all means, go in and harvest to save what you can. But otherwise, leave it alone is my take. And no, I have never been to the rainforest. I was forced to quit traveling out of the US in 1985, and will probably never leave the USA again. I live vicariously through television and movies.

If you are concerned about things like habitat destruction in the rainforest, (and this is also a big issue with people who grow and collect palm trees), it might be nice to support organizations that actively try to do something about it, by purchasing the land to protect it, or buying merchandise affiliated with Fair Trade and other programs, which gives people in those places a chance to use the resources of their native forests in a manner that supports keeping the forest intact instead of destroying it.

Its like PETA (the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) says: "Saving the world, one chicken at a time"

There is a very small thing everyone with this concern could do, it only takes a second, it costs nothing, and it makes a positive impact:

Participate in "CLICK TO GIVE".

There are 6 sites that you can give your click to, that address worldwide social issues like hunger, breat cancer, the rainforest, care for shelter animals, literacy and child health. Sponsers whose ads appear on the site fund these different programs based on the amount of exposure their ads get, as evidenced by the "click".

Its free, doesn't generate spam, no one contacts you, just bookmark one or another of the sites, then visit once a day and give your click on each of the 6.

Here is the site, you can get to the other 5 using the tabs at the top:
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces?siteID=3

 

Bihai, you won't get flamed. Maybe I'm the only one who cares where Anthuriums are endemic. I like to know the facts about plants, not the myths.
Maybe this started a few years ago when I went to Norfolk Island, about 3 hours flight East of Sydney say. Some of the plants over there are only endemic to that island and that fascinated me!! Native Hibiscus and Peperomia plants were very similar, yet different. Same with Lord Howe Island, many palms are only endemic to that island, a famous one being the Kentia palm that is grown all around the world!!
So, because I am only new to aroids, I am on a very steep learning curve and I guess I, for one, would like to know the facts, not the myths...

Ed

 

I just want to give a little info to everyone looking for Jenmanii. The plant you are looking for is NOT JENMANII. It is anthurium bonplandi guyanum. My father has talked to DR. Croat in length about this subject and he has told us that the plant everyone is posting that they are seeking is bonplandi guyanum not jenmanii. He says that jenmanii does not even look like bonplandi guyanum. Bonplandi guyanum has the new purpleish foliage that is very distinct characteristic that jenmanii does not have. My father says that a long time ago their was a anthurium bonplandi guyanum at the aroid show that was incorrectly labeled as jenmanii and for some reason the wrong name has been attached to the plant ever since. This is just a little info I thought you guys needed to know.

 

Thanks you, Big Bill, that is very good to know.

 

Incredible information Bill. I'll go change the tag on the Anthurium in my collection! Did you send this to Aroid l?

Since this post, and since I commented on it elsewhere, I've already received nasty email over this topic. Please don't get angry, just change the tag on your plant if you have the Anthurium with the purple-red leaf! You still have a beautiful plant, just the wrong name tag.

Many people are not going to appreciate Bill's information. Please understand, I DIDN'T SAY THIS AND NEITHER DID BILL! This information came from Dr. Tom Croat of the Missouri Botanical Garden in St. Louis. Dr. Croat is America's top aroid botanist and Anthurium specialist.

If you are interested in buying, or selling, the Anthurium from the Guiana Shield that produces the purple-red leaves, you should read again what Bill wrote above. His new information provided by Dr. Tom Croat of the Missouri Botanical Garden is simply scientific. The plant everyone is selling as Anthurium jenmanii isn't that species! It is Anthurium bonplandii subsp. guyanum. Go read what Bill just posted again! Please don't get mad at me or Bill! He didn't make this up and neither did I!

I'm in the process now of attempting to get a quote directly from Dr. Croat. I'll post it the moment it is available but he is currently on vacation. Thanks Bill, and Denis, for this information. This is going to really confuse a lot of people. But based on your knowledge and the source, believe it!

Please note, especially if you are about to send me a nasty email as some already have done! I didn't say this! A recognized aroid botanist said it! But why does it even matter? Well, if someone is advertising a Mercedes Benz for sale and when you arrive with your $30,000 and it is only a Ford pickup, does it matter? Maybe not to some, but to a serious plant collectors, it matters! And I'm sure it would matter to the guy about to buy that truck! For some time I've been told by experts in French Guiana Anthurium jenmanii is not truly rare. But they have also said Anthurium bonplandii subsp. guyanum is rare. And this explains why! Just change the tag on your plant!
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