Acer palmatum 'Alpine Sunrise'

Discussion in 'Acer palmatum cultivars (photos)' started by jcblue13, Nov 30, 2009.

  1. jcblue13

    jcblue13 Member

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    A witches'-broom found by Robert McCaffrey of Alpine Gardens, Alpine, New Jersey.

    A very nice red dwarf, often wrongly named as Alpine surprise.

    pict1,2: 20 april pict3: 4 mai
     

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  2. 2annbrow

    2annbrow Active Member

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    Jcblue - thank you for the good pictures. Say, is that "witches' broom" an own-root, or a graft?
     
  3. jcblue13

    jcblue13 Member

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    hi Ann, cv' s are always grafted. A. palmatum cv's are very hard to multiply by cuttings.
     
  4. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hi jcblue,

    Welcome to the forum, it is nice to see more European enthusiasts (or are you not?) participating.

    It is interesting what you say: 'Alpine Sunrise' , all references I've seen talk of 'Alpine Surprise', http://www.esveld.nl/htmldiaen/a/acpasp.htm; what are your sources?,
    if you are right I'll have to change the label in my garden :(

    Gomero
     
  5. jcblue13

    jcblue13 Member

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    For me my reference is the book: Japanese Maples 'Momiji and kaede' 3rd edition. Revised and expanded by Peter Gregory.
     
  6. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Back at home, I can check the 'World Checklist of Maple Cultivar Names' and there Peter has two entries, one for 'Alpine Sunrise' with the above quoted Vertrees information and a second one for 'Alpine Surprise' with W.Schwartz as source circa 1998. So according to Peter they may be different cultivars, does anybody have additional information?

    Commercially, I've checked the plant list of several major nurseries in US and Europe and only found it as 'Alpine Surprise' at Esveld's (from whom I have my plant) and at Maillot's as 'Alpine Suprise [sic]'.

    jcblue13, could you please confirm that your plant was indeed labeled 'Alpine Sunrise' and who was the propagator?, if this is so, by comparing your plant with mine we could assess if they are the same or not.

    Gomero
     
  7. maf

    maf Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    If one is outside in the weather trying to write on a plastic label with a sharpie there is not much difference between "Sunrise" and "Surprise". (If the person writing the word was a doctor, for example, there would be no way to tell for sure which word had been written.)

    My guess is they are the same cultivar, particularly as "Alpine Sunrise" is well documented as a witches' broom and "Alpine Surprise" is referenced above to Mr Schwartz who is associated with many witches' brooms. What are the chances of two brooms of recent origin with such similar yet unusual names?
     
  8. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    I got my 'Alpine Surprise' from Topiary Gardens in New York, which is right next door to Billy Schwartz's place. I have never seen it referenced otherwise. The World Checklist lists both plants with different originators, so I would guess they are different plants.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
  9. jcblue13

    jcblue13 Member

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    when i look at your post Kaitain4 for A. palmatum 'Alpine surprise' and my pictures i'd say they are different. Mine has never the green tone on the leaf. Furthermore i have the impression that your maple is no dwarf (see the leaf and way it grows). Did you check your plant to vertrees?

    I bought my plant with esveld some years ago, but maybe i should find out where he got his plant.

    Anyway following the description in vertrees, i keep mine as sunrise.
     
  10. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    I agree. They look like very different plants..
     
  11. maf

    maf Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    This is rather confusing........the plant Esveld lists as 'Alpine Surprise' resembles jcblue's "Sunrise" and not K4's "Surprise"........I wonder which one Gomero's is like and if anyone else has pictures of either?
     
  12. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Of course!, you can name your plant as you please, that's not the point. In the forum we try to promote better knowledge on maples and shed some light in this drowning sea of cultivars and, concerning the subject under discussion, we have not concluded yet.

    I agree with you Maf. My plant, bought 3 years ago from Esveld as A. palmatum 'Alpine Surprise' looks very much like the one shown in Esvelds website and in this thread and not at all like K4's.The 1st pic is at leafout, second end of April, third in the summer and 4th in the Fall. The plant is in shade, which explains the summertime greening.

    I do not think that the fact that there are two entries in the ''World Checklist of Maple Cultivar Names' means that they are different selections, to me it means that Peter acknowledges he has found those two names coming from two different sources.
    I concur with Maf when he says:
    . My assessment is that they are the same cultivar and the real question to me is: what is the real, original, name, Surprise?; Sunrise? or Surprising Sunrise? ;o))

    Next time at Esveld's I'll ask them about this.

    Gomero
     

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  13. maf

    maf Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    Thanks Gomero, we seem to have the same view on this. I particularly like the summer picture with the attractive green veins. The Bodwen Nursery list 'Alpine Sunrise' and their picture looks similar: Acer palmatum Alpine Sunrise

    Personally I think 'Alpine Surprise' sounds like a new flavour of Toblerone, I hope 'Alpine Sunrise' turns out to be the true name.

    Search engines are not much help in this case. Google has approximately the same number of hits for either spelling, and not many at that, 25 and 26.
     
  14. jcblue13

    jcblue13 Member

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    just wondering, wouldn't it be much easier to ask Robert McCaffrey of Alpine Gardens, Alpine, New Jersey?

    he found it afterall and guess named it too. With his description all should be clear.
     
  15. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    lol ;o))) ;o)))

    I agree, but I do not happen to know this gentleman.

    Gomero
     
  16. maf

    maf Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    I don't know this gentleman either - I tried googling[GOOGLE]"Robert McCaffrey" "Alpine Gardens"[/GOOGLE] and only returned 3 results: this page; the Vertrees page referenced above; and something random from Vermont that had nothing to do with the subject at hand.

    If anyone reading this knows Mr McCaffrey (or Mr Schwartz who also seems to be involved with this cultivar) please ask them if they would like to set the record straight.
     
  17. maf

    maf Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    In the fourth edition of "Japanese Maples" Peter Gregory describes 'Alpine Surprise' as
    which seems not unlike the tree K4 posted in the thread for that cultivar.

    'Alpine Sunrise' is not mentioned but this does lend some justification to "-Sun-" rather than "-Surp-" being the correct name for the dwarf witches'-broom pictured in this thread.
     

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