100's of Muscadine Grape Vines - Now What?

Discussion in 'Grapes and Grape Vines' started by NetKnockout, Apr 8, 2005.

  1. NetKnockout

    NetKnockout Member

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    To: Anyone Who Can Help,

    I discovered on my father's property literally over a hundred muscadine vines, apparently just growing wild? As they are in the woods, in the marshy area... Some are as big around as my arm. Many of the vines are not producing any fruit, (as of last year), and many that are producing fruit are doing so in unreachable places, as many of the vines have climbed their way to the top of the trees, I assume seeking sun.
    Questions:
    1.) Can I pull those vines out of the tree tops and/ or cut them so that I can train them to a more reachable spot?
    2.) Can they be transplanted? If so, how?
    3.) Can I take cutting from the old vines and start new vines? If so do I need to use a rooting hormone? And how long until the new little vine grows roots and can be planted? And how many years after that until I can hope to see fruit?
    4.) Do I need to purchase male vines to pollinate these vines? If so how many?
    5.) How can I determine which type I have?
    There are some pictures of some of the vines at the following link, just click on the album that says Grape Vines... : )~

    http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/truebeauty74/my_photos

    I apologize for all the questions, and would so appreciate any/ and all help!
    Thank-you in advance - Nikki
     
  2. SRTech

    SRTech Member

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    I am not an expert, but here is what I think I know.

    1. YES, Grapes should be trimmed back to what seems almost nothing each year.

    2. Not sure how to transplant, I normally just take cuttings.

    3. So here is what I have been told: Make a cutting of vine that has four nodes on it. Put two below the soil in a pot, and two above. You probably can use rooting hormone, I have never. You will want to take the cuttings when the grape is dormant (in the winter). It takes about 3 years before they are fully producing.

    4. No, Grapes do not need a male plant.

    Hope this helps some.
     
  3. Eric La Fountaine

    Eric La Fountaine Rising Contributor UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years of Activity

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    For those not familiar with muscadines or scuppernongs, they are quite different from other grapes. They are placed in a separate sub-genus. The fruit is large and flavourful, but the peel is very tough. I was introduced to them in Georgia. One would suck the pulp and juice from the fruit and discard the tough peel. They make great jelly.

    I found this description from the California Rare Fruit Growers:
    http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/muscadinegrape.html
     
  4. Newt

    Newt Well-Known Member 10 Years of Activity

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    Hi Nikki,

    I see you've gotten some helpful info already and I agree with what you've been told. I'll try not to repeat any of that info. I wouldn't suggest that you "pull" the vines out of the trees unless you can do it without damaging the tree canopy. If you want to get the heavier vines out of the canopy you would need to cut the vines near the base and let the tops die off first for easier removal. And yes, they are searching for the sun which they need to produce the grapes. You might want to consider leaving some for the wildlife.

    If you want to try and transplant, choose the youngest vines. Many older vines don't transplant all that well. Cuttings are a better idea as suggested.

    Without seeing the leaves and grapes it would be very difficult to say exactly which ones you have, but considering their location I think we have it as the muscadine native.

    Here's another interesting site about your muscadines.
    http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/pdf/hil-8203.pdf

    This site shows how to grow them on a grape arbor.
    http://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/fruit/grapes.html

    I totally enjoyed the picture tour of your father's property. You have done a tremendous amount of work and my hat is off to you! I had to giggle at Oscar and Oliver. I thought they were dogs or cats. It took me a minute to figure it out. I can see a lovely woodland garden there some day.

    Hope this answers your questions.
    Newt
     
  5. NetKnockout

    NetKnockout Member

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    Thank-you all for your help..... : ) Here is my solution, if for any reason it won't work, please let me know.... - Nikki


    Hi Newt,

    Thank-you very much for your help. I think I have a rather good idea as to how to handle them at this point. Being that muscadines are different from most grapes and are hard to start from cuttings, I have pulled down some of the vines and have laid them on the ground, tomorrow I'll throw pots of dirt under the nodes and cover them with dirt and then a rock on top, in an attempt to layer them. I am crossing my fingers.... Though I did already take dozens of cuttings and have made an attempt at rooting them, I guess time will tell... : )
    The man behind the camera, is my favorite man of all time, my Dad, he is incredibly proud of me. I moved home three years ago and the first year we built my house here on the property, just he and I, working side by side, and then the following year I took over his long neglected little garden, and wound up getting such an incredible amount of satisfaction and joy from it that I decided a BIGGER garden was in order for the following year, thus being this year, and therefore, I started clearing a half an acre of land all by MYSELF, lol, Dad taught me how to operate the chainsaw, tractor, as well as heaps of other equipment, and then turned me loose, heheeh.... He is incredibly proud... Yay Dad... I am in Central Virginia, Gordonsville.... You say your passion is trees, does that include fruit trees??? What are woodland flowers, I'll probably go look it up... >smiles< Again thank-you for your time and help...
    Smiling @ You - Nikki
     
  6. Newt

    Newt Well-Known Member 10 Years of Activity

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    Hi Nikki,

    I too had a 'handy' Dad who taught me to use tools and how to do many DIY projects from electrical to plumbing to painting a house. He always said that a woman should be able to take care of herself and it's served me well.

    I don't know too much about fruit trees, but I do know where to get information, so don't be shy about asking. You certainly have the space.

    Woodland flowers are those that thrive in shade and can live with trees and their litter. Many are ephemerals, appearing in spring with their lovely flowers and disappearing shortly after blooming only to appear the following year. There are many wonderful natives. Now that you've cleared out alot of the undergrowth you may find some wonderful surprises. Here's some examples of some of my favorite woodland flowers.

    Virginia Bluebells - Mertensia virginica
    http://www.grownative.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=plants.plantDetail&plant_id=143
    http://www.newfs.org/inbloom1/flowerpages/virginia_bluebells.html
    http://www.virginia.edu/blandy/bluebells.JPG
    http://www.smedesphoto.com/virginia_bluebells.htm

    Celedine poppy - Stylophorum diphyllum (goes great with Virginia bluebells and bloom around the same time.)
    http://www.grownative.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=plants.plantDetail&plant_id=54
    http://www.hort.purdue.edu/hort/ext/Hafele/images/large/2-016.jpg

    Goat's Beard - Aruncus dioicus
    http://www.grownative.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=plants.plantDetail&plant_id=29
    http://www.botany.wisc.edu/garden/db/speciesdetail.asp?genus=Aruncus&species=dioicus

    Solomon's Seal - Polygonatum biflorum (there's another native that has variegated leaves the next link below this)
    http://www.grownative.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=plants.plantDetail&plant_id=60
    http://members.aol.com/arkhaik/solomonc.jpg

    Variegated Solomon's Seal - Polygonatum biflorum 'variegatum'
    http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/durham/agriculturehorticulture/mg/flowerpix/solomonsseal.jpg

    Wild Bloodroot - Sanguinaria canadensis - the second pic is what they look like when they first emerge.
    http://www.newfs.org/inbloom1/flowerpages/bloodroot.html
    http://hem.spray.se/saxifraga/images/Sanguinaria-canadensis-1.jpg

    Aquilegia canadensis - Columbine with many hybrids, but this is one of the natives. There's also a rare yellow that is native to Maryland. Hummers love this early bloomer. I find it to be a short lived perennial, but it seeds around and isn't invasive. It self seeds in some wonderful spots and makes for happy surprises.
    http://www.grownative.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=plants.plantDetail&plant_id=53
    http://ispb.univ-lyon1.fr/cours/botanique/photos_dicoty/dico A a C/Aquilegia canadensis.jpg

    Phlox divaricata - wild phlox or wild sweet william in shades of blue, purple and pinkish.
    http://www.grownative.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=plants.plantDetail&plant_id=55
    http://www.easywildflowers.com/quality/phl.di1.gif
    http://www.inhs.uiuc.edu/cwe/illinois_plants/ThePlants/PGenera/PhlDiv/PhlDiv3.jpg

    Lobelia cardinalis - Cardinal flower - I have to fight off the hummingbirds for this one and it blooms in late summer. It's a knock-your-socks-off red that I just love. There's selected cultivars now that are more burgundy. There is also a giant blue lobelia that is native but it really seeds around. The hummers love it too.
    http://www.grownative.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=plants.plantDetail&plant_id=19
    http://www.tva.gov/river/landandshore/stabilization/plants/images/lobelia_cardinalis.jpg
    http://www.tropicalesque.com/images/pic_lobelia_cardinalis.jpg

    Trillium - another favorite in different colors. Everything about this flower is in 3's including the leaves and the flower petals.
    http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&q=trillium&btnG=Search

    Then there are lovely ferns and soooo much more like native orchids that can cost as much as a good pair of shoes! You can also plant bulbs and native iris. And people don't think flowers grow in the woods! I actually grow all of these and more in my tiny garden.


    This site is from the New England Native Plant Society and they have a place called Garden in the Woods. It shows natives by month of bloom and is a wonderful resource for ideas.
    http://www.newfs.org/inbloom1/months/april.html

    More pretty pics of woodland flowers in Maine, all of which you can grow in your zone from this page.
    http://members.aol.com/wenamun/maine.html

    The Virginia Native Plant Society has a site you can look over and they have plant sales in the spring. They used to have a nursery list but I don't have time right now to look around the site. Lots of helpful info with a list of invasives.
    http://www.vnps.org/

    If you decide to mailorder plants you can check their references here. You can also look for nurseries near you.
    http://davesgarden.com/gwd/

    Hope I didn't overwhelm you!
    Newt
     
  7. douglas

    douglas Active Member 10 Years of Activity

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    HI Nikki

    The gardens look great/
    my daughter saw the pics of Oliver and Asked why he was wearing braces ( she just got her's) lol. neat tractor is it gas or diesel?

    Regards Doug
     
  8. Does anyone know of a source of muscadine or scuppernong grapes in Canada? I really miss them, they have such a complex flavour and muscadine hull jam is great! The closest I have been able to get here is the Coronation grape.

    Lynn - Victoria BC
     
  9. fastpat

    fastpat Member

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    Although I realize this is an old message, the answer is that almost all of Canada is too cold for muscadine (of which Scuppernong is a type) grape vines.

    I would take a look at the offerings of Miller Nurseries in upstate New York. They have a very good selection of grapes that are cold tolerant.
     
  10. boizeau

    boizeau Member

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    Best to mark the good bearing vines in the fruit season with red tape. You won't want to save all of them. also, you need a few males so don't remove all of the 'barren vines'. Muscadines root poorly from cuttings, but young plants can be moved in the winter, the younger the better and one year olds are easiest to move.
    I would suggest the best thing to do is to harvest the fruit and save the best berries for seed.
    Would also be interested in a few seeds myself.

    Boizeau
     
  11. Ottawa-Zone5

    Ottawa-Zone5 Active Member

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    Boizeau & others
    If Muscadine are hard to root from cuttings, why not trying the 'ground-layering". I guess it is too late for the thread starter now.
     
  12. boizeau

    boizeau Member

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    The best thing to do "I think" is to collect the fruit from the best vines and replant the seeds in a greenhouse. The ones with low quality fruit should be removed. Leave a few males for pollen though. You need to check the vines at bloom to determine sex. ie Pistillate or Staminate flowers.
     
  13. muscadineman45

    muscadineman45 Member

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    Muscadines in the wild are male or female.Domesticated vines are female or self fertile meaning that they will pollinate themselves and female vines near them.If you only have female vines,they will never produce fruit.
     
  14. boizeau

    boizeau Member

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    Some of the vines will be male, and some will have fruit of poor quality.
    You need to make a point of being there when they bloom, to determine which are which, and again at harvest season to see which have good or useful fruit. Do not take all of the males out, but you will likely have too many of them.
    Too bad I could not open the Flicker page to see the photos.
    If you do find a good early ripe Muscadine I'd sure be interested in getting some seeds to try up north.
    The vines will survive in the Northwest but the fruit typically ripens so very late.
    Likely you have excessive shade, and the vines will naturally try to climb above the forest canopy and that is where the fruit will be. Try to thin out the woods-- especially the tallest trees growing out there.
     

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