black bark in chitoseyama

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Dulce, Jul 17, 2016.

  1. Dulce

    Dulce Member

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    Hello,

    We recently bought this young jm. I'm trying to learn how to chose a healthy japanese maple when I'm in the nurseries. I can see some bark turning black around the trunk. Do you think this is normal? Does it looks healthy? I'm attaching some pictures.

    I have read that when you choose a jm it is important to pay attention to the graft union. That if there is severe die back at this point, the plant should be avoided. But I'm still learning how to recognize wood turning to a different color when the trunk is getting older or when there is something wrong. I have been paying attention to my other jm graft unions and there is not black wood around.

    Dulce
     

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  2. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    Sorry to say, but your tree is likely doomed. Healthy wood on a maple should be varying shades of green or red/purple (for red-leafed cultivars), with your coral barks having varying shades of yellow through red; there are very few exceptions to this. Any time you see black, it's never a good sign; this means that the tissue in this portion of the branch/trunk/bark is dying. Most commonly, this is what you will see if the tree is infected with pseudomonas, a bacterial infection that is very difficult to get rid of and spreads to other maples very easily (it is transmitted through water, so splashback when watering from an infected tree onto another maple can spread the infection). If the infection is on a branch, sometimes pruning off the branch a couple of nodes in from the visibly affected area can save the tree; unfortunately, if the infection is at the graft union - which yours is - there's often no hope of saving it. You can try treating the tree with a copper solution, but if the infection is too severe, or the tree is young/stressed, it may not be enough.

    Also, and this is VERY important, if you do ANY pruning on an infected tree, sterilize your tools after EVERY SINGLE cut, or you can risk spreading the infection to unaffected portions of the tree - or to other trees. If you have other maples, especially any kept close to this one, I'd recommend treating all with a copper solution to be on the safe side.
     
  3. Dulce

    Dulce Member

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    Thankyou so much Andrea for you answer. We just bought our tree last friday so hopefully I will be able to exchange it this week. When I bought it, it already had these black areas over the trunk. I've just checked the other trees we got on the same day and I can see something similar on Villa Taranto. What do you think? I attach pictures as well.

    I know we learn from experiences but I will start reading more about how to choose a new tree :S

    Dulce
     

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  4. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    Your Villa could be affected as well... I have a Villa Taranto, and many of the branches on mine have dark spots on them, but it is not infected; I think it is sunscald (this is the first year it's been in full sun for most of the morning). My Viridis is the same, ie dark spots, but it's been that way ever since I bought it 3 years ago, and it's fine. So, dark spots doesn't always mean pseudomonas, but to try and explain how pseudomonas looks different is very hard to do - it just looks more insidious, if that make sense, and it spreads, sometimes faster, sometimes slower. If you can, and don't mind, exchanging them for trees that don't have any black on them, I would do it; they may be fine in the long haul, or they may not, it's impossible to say at this point.
     
  5. Dulce

    Dulce Member

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    Thank you again Andrea. I appreciate a lot your comments and I will keep this on mind. I use to choose trees just because of their foliage and general shape. It is fascinating to discover more about japanese maples. I will be able to exchange my trees this week so I will do it. :) A BIG thanks again for your time and sharing you experience.

    Dulce
     
  6. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    You didn't mention if the nursery where you bought these trees from specialises solely in JM and therefore do they graft there own stock? Therefore lies the problem in my opinion, if they grafted these trees themselves i am very supprised that they even allowed them to be displayed let alone be sold to customers when they are clearly in such a poor condition or do they buy them in from other growers? if so this is where the problem may come from, with another nursery off loading poor grade plants.

    As you say you are going to replace them that's fine i just hope they provide you with some healthier looking replacements.

    One thing you must do over the years if you intend to increase your numbers of JM is find a good solid reputable grower of JM and stick with them, this is one thing i learnt from a very early stage after buying countless JM from various sources and to be honest not having great amounts of success with these cultivars in the following years.

    I buy all my young grafts from a specialist JM grower in Lincs, they have been grafting JM for 'donkeys years' and they do literally thousands of good healthy grafted plants in numerous varieties.

    Have included some pics of their grafts three in pots waiting to be planted out, and three in the ground which went out last year, all looking nice and healthy with good graft unions and colours to match.

    Good luck in the future with your JM it will get easier as the years go by:)

    Mark
     

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  7. Dulce

    Dulce Member

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    Hello Mark,

    Thakyou for reading and replying to my message. Thanks as well for the pictures... I was trying to find some examples of healthy and unhelthy japanese maple grafting unions in order to get more use to them. I'm visiting the the japanese maple nursery tomorrow to exchange my chitoseyama and my villa taranto. They grow their own stock as far as I understood. I’ve already checked the other japanese maples I bought on the same day to see if there were black signs on the wood but can I have your opinion about them? I attach the pictures. First two are Okagami (front and back), then Ginkgo san and last one is a little Corallinum.

    Sorry, Do you know if I should leave the blue rubber band around corallinum graft? or should I take it off now....

    And a very last question. Is the Hippottering Japanese maple nursery where you buy your trees? I’ve just started collecting these beautiful trees and I’m still looking for good addresses.

    Thankyou so much for your time Mark.

    Dulce
     

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  8. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Check out our Maples: Nurseries Specializing in Maples resource page. European locations are below the USA and Canada ones.
    (Edited) I should add that they are not necessarily recommendations of the forum, just ones people have mentioned liking.
     
  9. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    WCutler as answered this question for you, see the posted link provided in her thread, there you will find Hippo's link.

    With regards to the other pictures you posted they seem to be ok , but your eye is thrown off slightly by the grafting wax which appears to be on all of your grafts, this will just pick off after time, but what i did notice is that these plants all seem to have a bit of age to them? wouldn't say these were two or three year old grafts for sure. Personally i would take the band off the corillanium and let some dry air get into it, seems to have two good growing branches on it at the present,which will need to be pruned in time.

    Are you going to leave these all in the pots or are you planting out? if leaving in the pots i would change the growing medium they are in to something more lighter, they seem to be planted in a very heavy mix at present plus this could be quite a few years old as i already commented on and is ready for a change. Leave this job until after the fall then you can take them out of the pot and have a real good look at the roots as well, you will be suprised by how much a JM will thank you for changing it's life support system.

    Can actually show this in action for you as well see pictures. Pic 1 top left hand corner 'Autumn glory' from hippo last July, two/three year old graft but with nice defintion and style on the branch structure try and think of what your trees will look like in 4/5 years time etc.

    Pic 2 Fall time the plant was repotted soon after bringing it home in July into a new growing medium which i use for all my trees young grafts and established trees alike they all go into this medium/mix.

    Pic 3 Febuary of this year you can see how healthy the graft union looks , but importantly see how small the branches are but with good budding plus they are still all on the inside of the new pot.

    Pic 4 Same plant today but notice the huge growth rate taken place in just over five months 30/35cm branch growth out side of the pot with a top growth of 50cm in height, and this has only been with me a year,but most importantly bought from a reliable grower with good root stocks and excellent knowledge of what they are doing!! this makes all the difference when buying JM.

    All the other plants in pic 1 have been planted out and all are growing nicely, still thinking off wether or not to leave the Autumn glory in it's pot for another year or plant out, will see what the fall colours are like ?

    Mark
     

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  10. Dulce

    Dulce Member

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    Hello Mark,

    Thankyou again for your time and this nice example of how your Autumn glory has changed in one year!

    I’m keeping all my trees in pots for the moment and I definitely need to change the growing mix of my trees this or next year. I have other JM that haven’t been repotted for a while. I thought I needed to wait until next spring to repot them but I’m really glad to hear that you did it just after fall with those beautiful results.

    Did you just wait until your autumn glory lost its leaves to repot it? And when did you prune your autumn glory? I can see branches are shorter in pic 3 and that you pruned them just above branch buds. Am I right? It is going to be the first time I prune my trees

    Can I also ask about the growing medium you use for your trees? I’m after some local advises.

    And a final question (sorry for all these questions), would you recommend to change all the growing medium of these trees? I normally just take out the tree from its pot and place it in a larger pot adding some new compost just to fill the new pot. I’ve seen that when the tree is older, or in some cases, it is good to change all the compost. How do you do with your young trees?

    Thank you.

    Dulce
     
  11. Dulce

    Dulce Member

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    Thank you Wendy for the link :)
     
  12. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    This is a question you can ask a dozen people and get a dozen different answers ,all you need to remember is your plants need aeration and drainage plus some sort of nutrient as a feed every so often.

    Every one will use similar mixtures but in varying degress plus some will add the addition of sand or gravel etc , all of which have been tried and tested over the years and all have given good results, your trees will show you what they like in time it's just a case of finding the right mixture for you and your trees.?

    When potting out any trees young or old i always use the same mixture which are :Irish moss peat @ 60%, Jonn Innes no 3 @ 30% and the smallest bark chip you can find @ 10% then i always add a good sprinkle of Miracle grow rose tree and shrub fertilizer to the mixture , plus every year i give all my trees a drink of liquid seaweed around March time and this works for me my trees plus the climate and area/zone where i am situated.

    Re the pics of the Autumn glory, that was repotted shortly after the first picture and there it remains, the tree has not yet been pruned this will happen either after the fall or in the spring time i just want to see how much more growth it will put on? the third pic of the tree was just to show how much new growth had been put on in such a short period of time when repotted into a new medium.

    Changing trees into bigger pots or new medium is a matter of watching how the tree progresses over the years, you can plant some out in newer larger pots and they will be happy for years where some will out grow pots in short periods of time, all depends on how the trees root system takes to it's new enviroment some struggle and some just go 'crazy' and will put on a phenominal amount of new root growth, then you have to look at root pruning to stem back the tree , always take your trees out of their pots every year and have a look at the system and see whats going on in the pot, are the roots girdling the pot etc , then see if you need to take action to help the tree.

    Don't forget when buying grafts or older trees you don't know how long they have been in that original pot, they could have been there years? then they definately need attention and you will be amazed by the new lease of life they will find when pruned and repotted in new medium.

    Added a few of pics of a young Purple ghost bought in May, Pic 1 a nice overall shape with a good branch structure which i will be able to work with in the coming years will take to shaping/pruning nicely, Pic 2 a good healthy graft union then Pic3 this is what i was looking for, a young graft with a good strong set of roots trying to reach a better growing conditions , this was planted straight out and i never even clipped the roots, just a larger planting hole with plenty of the medium described above this tree is now coming along very nicely at present, again always go for excellent healthy stock from good growers and you should not have any problems.

    Mark
     

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  13. Dulce

    Dulce Member

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    Mark,

    Thank you for your time and sharing your experience. I appreciate so much all your advices and the graphic examples. I feel really happy I found this forum. For the growing medium I will try to use your mix, and hopefully with the time I will discover some specific needs of my trees. For now I will wait after fall to repot my trees… I have many things to learn!! And I can see there are SO many interesting threads in the forum.

    I loved the shape and colour of your purple ghost. Again… thank you for the pictures, whenever I used to see roots coming out from the pot I thought it was a bad sign… but.. I can see now it is a sign of desire to grow!

    Dulce
     

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